Old School guy needs advice

[Jusatele]

stay with me a bit

I have always had tube amps, Twins, Sunns, Vox, oh yea own a couple of them

then in 2003 bought a Vox Valvetronics, which I love, but still love my tube stuff

ok so that is my base for this question

but, I want to step up to one of these multi pedals and a simple portable rig, I am tired of lugging around my vintage Voxs and beating them up, my Vlavtronics stack is a monster and I just want a rig I can set up such as the on Mayfly is showing off, but I have no experience in them so I go Yesterday to GC and get overwhelmed with hard sale talk about this and that.

So here is what I need

1.  I need 20 or 30 real watts (compared to a tube amp) of power ( and this will possible be in a bass amp as I will be using a FX unit) but clean and clear with punch

2. I need to be schooled in the Pod 5 or Axe FX or what ever. What are the options for setting up sound loops with drum tracks, programing in changes, sound modeling, effect usage and having this at foot pedal control .  Basically I want a setup I can go out and gig with, teach with, or set up a backing track  that is more than just drum track. Have memories to store this stuff, and be something I do not need a degree in computer science to operate.

and I am looking for this rig to be extremely portable. 2 or 3 pieces.

the reason I ask here is every where I shop I get more pressure to buy something than I get to answer questions. I think most the guys in the stores really do not how to use these units.

 

[mayfly]

well, a vox tonelab and a powered wedge will get you there.  The tones are not as good as the AxeFx, but the're reasonable and it's very easy to program up.  You essentially turn knobs until you like what you hear and then press 'save'

Does not have a looper however - but it's small and boxes up well (made my own road case for mine).  Sounds like it will do everything else that you need.  It has the following built in:

1 - a bunch of different overdrive units
2 - a bunch of different amp models. It seems to excel at Vox tones
3 - a bunch of different delay units
4 - a bunch of different chorus/flanger/rotating speaker effects
5 - several speaker models.
6 - ready for this?  a tube (12ax7) that they use to model the power amp.
7 - over 100 different presets, each one you can program any combination of amp, cab, overdrive, effects, etc, etc

The only real down side is that there is a slight delay when switching presets.  I learned to work around it, but it is a PITA for live playing.  Everything else about it is pretty good.
Oh - and I had to open up the brick power supply once to fix it - it blew a fuse.

Oh - this album was done using the Tone Lab exclusively - ran it straight into the board:

http://cornflowerbluemusic.com/music/music.html

Actually, I don't use my Tone lab anymore since getting the AxeFx.  Do you want it?

 

[elfro89]

You can always get yourself the Pod X3 Pro rack unit, plug that into a power amp and you are away. You can easily fit all that into a 3/4U rack case. Easy and Portable. I'd look on this as a much cheaper alternative to the Axe-FX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZiEbPFzLQ

 

[JamesL]

You can always get yourself the Pod X3 Pro rack unit, plug that into a power amp and you are away. You can easily fit all that into a 3/4U rack case. Easy and Portable. I'd look on this as a much cheaper alternative to the Axe-FX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZiEbPFzLQ

I love what he's playing! He's good. :guitarplayer2:

 

[Jusatele]

thanks guys

Mayfly, is the TonePro like working a Vox Valvetronic amp? If so I am interested, I love the tones you can get from those things

now part of the situation is this, I want a system I can program in backing tracks, and not have to carry round the lap top.

In other words, once I have the multi effect board picked out. I want a "head" unit that I can use to store stuff I can loop when we do a work shop or such. We are moving up our workshops to twice a month, usually we just put in a drum track into a boss loop back and play a quick set of chords and loop it, However I want a system that I can have a few of them programed in so we can just play them back after the lesson point for everyone to experiment over. I also feel that once I have that set up I would just want a clean power amp, that is why I am looking for a new 30 to 50 watt bass amp.

More suggestions, and more experience from guys with multi boards is wanted here because this is my first time I am going into them and I really need everyones experience and advice so I can pick from them what would suit me. I would hate to get one that drives me nut even though it is a system that a scientist finds easy, Like I said, I like tube stuff so simple turn this and that is my style, however I feel technology is to the point I need to start looking around.

 

[mayfly]

Hmmm.  Regarding playing loops sans laptop, howabout editing the loop into a song and sticking it onto an iPod?

 

[mayfly]

oh and yes - the tone lab works exactly like a valve-tronics amp.  :headbang:

 

[Jusatele]

Hmmm.  Regarding playing loops sans laptop, howabout editing the loop into a song and sticking it onto an iPod?

ya see, now we are talking
I think we are on to something here, so I set up the tonelab to my lap top and do the editing there, I do have a Sony Studio software program, does the tonelab have a usb port or whatever?

 

[Superlizard]

Don't be swayed by the dark, no-tone side, Luke.  :laughing7:

Get a nice lil (current model)  combo t00b amp ~20 watts, a few pedals and you're set.

Still have that schweet t00b tone & portability with none of the plasticky fakeness from chips!

 

[mayfly]

Hmmm.  Regarding playing loops sans laptop, howabout editing the loop into a song and sticking it onto an iPod?

ya see, now we are talking
I think we are on to something here, so I set up the tonelab to my lap top and do the editing there, I do have a Sony Studio software program, does the tonelab have a usb port or whatever?

the tonelab has MIDI, but it's just for switching  patches and backing up the settings.  Just has an audio out for the audio stuff.

 

[Jusatele]

you see, here is the problem
this is 2011, not 1962
we have the technology for this, I mean I am not asking for much.
if we have multi effect pedals
we have modelers we can patch direct into PA systems
we have loop systems
so, why do we not have such a system?  I see Gary Hoey do a video and it seems he has one. He sits at the desk, waits till they ask for him to play. He does a few clixks on his thinggy he is playing through and bingo he is playing some song with a full backing track.
I know it is out there and I know it would be a huge market

 

[Superlizard]

you see, here is the problem
this is 2011, not 1962
we have the technology for this, I mean I am not asking for much.
if we have multi effect pedals
we have modelers we can patch direct into PA systems
we have loop systems
so, why do we not have such a system?  I see Gary Hoey do a video and it seems he has one. He sits at the desk, waits till they ask for him to play. He does a few clixks on his thinggy he is playing through and bingo he is playing some song with a full backing track.
I know it is out there and I know it would be a huge market

Doesn't matter what decade it is: technology simply cannot replicate the touch-sensitivity, compression,
warmth and other organic qualities of the vacuum tube.  Some things were done right the first time.

If these modelers, multi-fx pedals and other whiz-bang gadgets were so doggone great, the t00b
amp would cease to exist.  But we still have t00b amps a-plenty - and there's a big reason
for that: tone.

I had one of those fancy preamp MIDI hundreds-of-parameters/options things back in
the day - the truth is, all it really gave me was 128 different ways to polish a turd.

Once one gets done fiddling with all the buttons and presets and parameters; once the "honeymoon"
is over, you'll still find yourself longing for the ability to just plug in and play a quality t00b amp.

Besides, hauling around a little t00b combo ain't no thang.

 

[pabloman]

Boss ME-50 :headbang1: That thing sounds so organic and is so easy to use. arty07:

 

[elfro89]

Boss ME-50 :headbang1: That thing sounds so organic and is so easy to use. arty07:

Jusatele, by all means check the boss ME-50 out but it really will suck the tone out any tube amp you run it into. Cheap board with cheap sounds. Mine broke after 2 years. Only used it about 30 times over those 2 years. Horrible pedal IMHO.

 

[Jusatele]

you see, here is the problem
this is 2011, not 1962
we have the technology for this, I mean I am not asking for much.
if we have multi effect pedals
we have modelers we can patch direct into PA systems
we have loop systems
so, why do we not have such a system?  I see Gary Hoey do a video and it seems he has one. He sits at the desk, waits till they ask for him to play. He does a few clixks on his thinggy he is playing through and bingo he is playing some song with a full backing track.
I know it is out there and I know it would be a huge market

Doesn't matter what decade it is: technology simply cannot replicate the touch-sensitivity, compression,
warmth and other organic qualities of the vacuum tube.  Some things were done right the first time.

If these modelers, multi-fx pedals and other whiz-bang gadgets were so doggone great, the t00b
amp would cease to exist.  But we still have t00b amps a-plenty - and there's a big reason
for that: tone.

I had one of those fancy preamp MIDI hundreds-of-parameters/options things back in
the day - the truth is, all it really gave me was 128 different ways to polish a turd.

Once one gets done fiddling with all the buttons and presets and parameters; once the "honeymoon"
is over, you'll still find yourself longing for the ability to just plug in and play a quality t00b amp.

Besides, hauling around a little t00b combo ain't no thang.

Lizard I hear you
and it is not the hauling around of the little tube combo
I bought a New Blues Jr Yesterday and have ordered a few mods for it
one of the best small amps out there, 32 pounds, 3 tubes in the pre amp, real reverb and able to be modded to double the output easily

My main concern is for the ability to be able to write and record songs in a format I can loop back or play in a unit I can plug into and play out of.
If that means using a PA, a clean amp, or a Professional board.
I know the multi FX units are getting better and better, I see guys showing up with them that never would before, and I am intrigued with the system Hoey uses, Now Mayfly has the new system,
I can use such a system. We hold workshops twice a month now and it would be nice to have a unit like such that I could show up with and pusha few buttons to get the track we developed going.

It is funny how it works at these workshops, everyone is put in a circle we do a short part of the lesson, then we start a backing track, everyone starts to play through a change, it goes around about 3 times and we stop for more of the lesson. By the end of it we have had 3 hours of lesson and immediate play, the guys are immersed into practical application with others and after the first workshop are almost rabid to get to another as they see, hear, discuss, and practice all in one sitting, the 3rd hour is usualy a Jam session based on the lessons.

Now i think you can see why a system like such is in my mind, our technology is there, It is just I never bothered with it, I play through tube amps, I just now have a reason to need a unit I can lay down stuff so we do not need to arrange for a bass player of a drummer to show up to a Workshop we put on for free. I mean we put out a donation hat just to get the studio rent back.

so all info so I can set up a rig is invited here, who knows who else it can help.

 

[JimBeed]

(unless im completely wrong) pity your not in england or else id love to play some tracks for free occasionaly  :toothy10:
But anyways, have you considered getting a boss micro br? its a digital recorder, which has four tracks,
and im pretty sure you could hook it up to a speaker system with the line out or something and keep your tracks recorded on there.
So far i haven't used mine much apart from the tuner, but will be doing so once i get some stuff together.
but from what i have done with it it sounds really good.
Not sure if thats the extra part your looking for but sounded like it fits the description of what you just posted. 

 

[stubhead]

Some things were done right the first time.

If these modelers, multi-fx pedals and other whiz-bang gadgets were so doggone great, the t00b
amp would cease to exist.  But we still have t00b amps a-plenty - and there's a big reason
for that: tone.

Some things were done right the first time.

If logic, and reason, and that other whiz-bang "conclusion-based thinking" were so doggone great,
all the religions would cease to exist.  But we still have religions a-plenty - and there's a big reason
for that: beecawz I say so.

If these modelers, multi-fx pedals and other whiz-bang gadgets were so doggone great, the t00b amp would cease to exist. - that's right, just as soon as any competing system comes up, the previous one disappears. There have been tube amps available now for sixty-some years, and the the modelers have had a whole two decades to replace them? Preposterous! Clearly, when the sun is a smoking black cinder and the earth a lifeless frozen bean, the descendants of the human species will be rocketing around the 'verse, still twanking their 1953 Telecasters through tweed deluxes. If they still use fingers. And ears. And the lizards didn't flip back and win the final round....

I prefer the actual sounds of the newest Digitech modelers to the POD's, Vox's and such - the RP150-155-250-255-355-500-100-GSP1101 chips. AN RP255 (line-thru & more screen) and a Boss RC20XL (11 savable loops) stuck to a board into a powered speaker will do, the volume depends on the speaker. Which is where your size calculations come in, the little Behringer, Mackie, JBL, Peavey ones come in at 30 lbs or so, you can spend however much you want or have, of course. If you want more firepower than the Boss looper offers, I personally would add in a mini-mixer and an iPod to the "board" part of it. A laptop could do all of this minus the speaker part, but the learning curve vs. expense vs. "how much do I have to diddle with it" factor increases with the laptop - coordinating various programs & functions within it is something that some people find enjoyable. Hmmm.

 

[Jusatele]

(unless im completely wrong) pity your not in england or else id love to play some tracks for free occasionaly  :toothy10:
But anyways, have you considered getting a boss micro br? its a digital recorder, which has four tracks,
and im pretty sure you could hook it up to a speaker system with the line out or something and keep your tracks recorded on there.
So far i haven't used mine much apart from the tuner, but will be doing so once i get some stuff together.
but from what i have done with it it sounds really good.
Not sure if thats the extra part your looking for but sounded like it fits the description of what you just posted. 

thanks, it is part of the system I envision
I see the fx part that can be direct plugged, a recording device,and a optionalclean amp for when I do not have a head to put it through. I really feel we have the technology out there, but have no experience in them
so I go to GC and get sales talk, I do not need sales talk,I want experience and ideas, so anyone still reading this post up, the answers so far have all helped, I research on teh net everything posted, soon I will devise a rig and go se if we can put one together for testing.

 

[pabloman]

Take some headphones to GC and play through the different modelers. That will give you an idea of the uncolored sound of the units plus it makes it easier to isolate the rest of the customers and the sales guys trying to earn a living.

 

[Superlizard]

My main concern is for the ability to be able to write and record songs in a format I can loop back or play in a unit I can plug into and play out of.
If that means using a PA, a clean amp, or a Professional board.

Then wouldn't a multitrack recording software package do the trick?