OD options for Les Paul into Fender Blues Deluxe.

[Damon]

I'm looking for an OD pedal to solve a specific problem I'm having and I'm hoping that someone here has successfully accomplished what I'm trying to do and can point me in the right direction.

As I've previously mentioned in other posts, I have a 93 or 94 Fender Blues Deluxe that I tweaked a bit. It sounded friggin great for bluesy OD tones with my old Strat and Tele using a Fulldrive 2 into the clean channel. I kept the Fender when I sold off most of my other stuff because I couldn't bring myself to part with it, hoping that someday I'd be able to play again (which I now can, YAY!) and that when that day came I'd get another Strat and/or Tele to go with it, but that project looks like it won't come to fruition for at least another 9 months at this point.  

The Fender has always sounded muddy with my Les Paul, which is currently my only guitar. I have an Ampeg VL-1002 half-stack and an MXR ZW-44 OD that I use now with the LP, but between the hassle of hauling that beast around and the fact that I'd like the have a bit of a different tone the weeks I'm playing rhythm guitar instead of lead at church, I'd like to get the Fender usable with the LP for anything other than clean tones. Both the distortion channel on the amp and the Zakk OD pedal sound like thick mud with my LP, regardless of what I do with the EQ, so I'm looking for something that gives me a clear, crunchy sound, more OD than distortion and more suitable for blues/classic rock/hard rock rhythm tones than lead, at least with that amp. If I can replace the Zakk (and maybe the Fulltone Fat Boost if I happen to find a pedal with a separate boost like the Fulltone GT-500) on my board with it and use it with both amps, even better. If it'll also work well with my eventual Strat and/or Tele, double bonus. Ideally, I'd like something around the same footprint as the Zakk, but I have a little flexibility there.

All input appreciated. Thanks.

Edit: Should probably note that the LP is a chambered body with a Duncan '59 in the neck and a JB in the bridge. I'm acutally thinking of swapping both of them out for a set of Pearly Gates for a little more bright in the neck and a little less hot (and compression) in the bridge.

 

[pabloman]

When I worked at GC I noticed that those amps sounded like poop with an LP. I was looking for blues or a hotrod but with an LP it just wasn't happening until one day I had a brilliant idea............:Boss EQ pedal. That took care of the issue. It also works well as a boost pedal with the option of tone shaping for a solo boost.

 

[kboman]

I will soon have a similar-ish setup: Hagström Swede into Vox AC15 or Fender Blues Jr. I'm considering a Carl Martin DC Drive, it has a separate boost and seems to be pretty tweakable. It all depends on what taste of OD you're after, really, but +1 to an EQ pedal!

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkwe6Z_cpS8[/youtube]

 

[Justinginn]

Mod to the drive that passes some bass without distorting it. How that looks on the circuit, I'm not sure.  :icon_scratch:

You could always build your own drive. AMZ has some suggestions for that type of thing. A clean bass range helps a lot with mud and punch.

 

[Damon]

:doh: I coulda had a V8....

Never even thought about an EQ pedal. That may be the trick. Might be able to use that to make the drive channel usable and not need an OD pedal for that amp.

Thanks!

 

[swarfrat]

For all the folks running OD pedals for a clean boost to overdrive the amp's input stage, I don't know why an EQ pedal isn't derigeur for doing that. Its very flexible, dial in your unboosted tone, set up your EQ to shape and boost that, voila.

 

[elfro89]

just sell the amp  :evil4:  :icon_jokercolor:

I can't think of anyone who's managed to get a great overdrive sound out a fender (especially a blues deluxe). It's probably better to spend money on getting an amp that can do the drive part better as opposed to wasting your time and money trying to mold the fender into a different animal. Nothing wrong with having more then one amp either.  :laughing7:

 

[Superlizard]

just sell the amp  :evil4:  :icon_jokercolor:

I can't think of anyone who's managed to get a great overdrive sound out a fender (especially a blues deluxe).

Eh?

I get a fantastic OD tone out of my mid-60s blackface Deluxe... paired with either an OCD, Crunchbox, Distortion+, DIME.

Like swarfrat suggests, using a stomp to push the clean amp into clipping is versatile - to add, using gain from amp itself (while usable) is limiting.

 

[elfro89]

cool man, just saying that in my opinion I've never heard a fantastic distortion come from that amp. Nor heard anyone who has.

 

[jackthehack]

cool man, just saying that in my opinion I've never heard a fantastic distortion come from that amp. Nor heard anyone who has.

That be true, the "Drive" channel on the BluesDeluxe/HotRod/DeVille series amps makes it sound like a cheap, crap 212R non-tube amp.

I think I used the Drive channel on mine a grand total of 10 minutes in the 5 years I've owned the amp. There's nothing wrong with the amp other than that, just use the OD pedal of your choice. If you have access to a store that carries Xotic pedals, check out their BB or BB+ pedals, there are videos on this site: http://www.xotic.us/effects/bb_plus/index.html

Another thing you can do without spending a lot of bucks is replace the questionable speaker that comes with the amp with something better, a Celestion Vintage 30 will definitely make it sound mo' better!

 

[Paul-less]

Nobody gets a good tone out of a Fender? Are you trippin'? Some of the greatest tones known to man have come out of Fender amps. You're right, if you want Metul, you should look away.

Now for some image abuse....

http://www.diochan.com/int/src/130132643847.jpg

 

[Superlizard]

Nobody gets a good tone out of a Fender? Are you trippin'? Some of the greatest tones known to man have come out of Fender amps. You're right, if you want Metul, you should look away.

Now for some image abuse....

Ted Nugent mad:

:icon_jokercolor:

 

[jackthehack]

"Nobody gets a good tone out of a Fender? Are you trippin'? Some of the greatest tones known to man have come out of Fender amps. You're right, if you want Metul, you should look away."

Nobody said that; what was said is that the Drive channel on a particular series of Fender tube amps sux.

 

[Damon]

I think for the $300 I paid for it 7-8 years ago it's a fantastic amp, it just doesn't like my Gibby is all. So no, I won't be selling it. I'm really just looking for a <$150 fix to make it usable with my LP until I get myself something nice and single-coily to play through it.

Jack, you're dead on. That drive channel is total shyte. I'm curious if I can make it usable with an EQ pedal, though, since Pablo suggested it. Can't believe I never thought of that in the time I've owned the amp. Overlooking the obvious again.

Superlizard, you mentioned an OCD. It happens that a friend of mine is going to loan me one this weekend to try with my rig. Any suggestions for dialing in a good tone with that pedal right out of the gates? I'm sure I'll be tweaking it regardless, but it's always nice to have known starting point. He's also loaning me a Jetter Red to try out, which I'm completely unfamiliar with. Supposed to sound like a Dumble. Anyone have any experience with that one?

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Superlizard]

Superlizard, you mentioned an OCD. It happens that a friend of mine is going to loan me one this weekend to try with my rig. Any suggestions for dialing in a good tone with that pedal right out of the gates?

Turn it to "11".   :laughing7:

Random thoughts:

But seriously, it's a pretty simple stomp and rather transparent.

Keep in mind it's not a flamethrower (uber-gain) - hence "overdrive".

From the sounds of it (as previously mentioned), the gain channel on the Blues Jr. is poo.  This
will not pose a problem as I always use non-channel-switching amps with my stomps (e.g. no separate
"gain" channel - you want balls, gotta turn up the volume... and that's not a "master" volume, either).
So what I'm saying is I'm essentially playing through the "clean" channel with these stomps.

If volume is no issue, turn up the amp about 50-75% of max volume and use the stomp to goose the rest... this
is the optimal scenario and the system used by countless guitar legends.  Otherwise, the less the amp's gain is
pushed by itself, the more the stomp will have to compensate for equal amount of sustain and clipping.  Worst scenario
is you have your amp turned up to .5 volume and the stomp's gain cranked to 10 (buzz buzz buzz).  You want those
power t00bs to cook and sweat - that's where the "magic smoke" tone comes from.

There's a "HP" and "LP" (High Pass & Low Pass, respectively) switch.  HP of course will give more highs, LP more lows...
use accordingly with your amp's eq-ing.

I tend to turn up the stomp volume first for more gain before turning up the stomp gain/dist/od knob... you
want to have enough clipping/od/dist without getting too buzzy.

This advice applies to any OD/Dist stomp, really.

 

[Damon]

Another thing you can do without spending a lot of bucks is replace the questionable speaker that comes with the amp with something better, a Celestion Vintage 30 will definitely make it sound mo' better!

Does the amp still sound "Fendery" with the V30?

I've got 2 V30s and 2 C90s in my 4x12. Problem is they're all 16 ohm and the amp is only 8 ohm out. Other than the normal differences between a 1x12 and a 2x12, how much different do you think the tone would be between having a single V30 in the combo and rewiring the 4x12 to just run the 2 V30s in parallel? Just thinking of doing this to get an idea before I drop $100+ on a speaker that may not be the right one. May also try it with the 2 C90s, since they're less likely to break up with a 40W amp and add to the mud. Options are good. Thoughts?

 

[Damon]

Turn it to "11".  :laughing7:

:headbang1:

Keep in mind it's not a flamethrower (uber-gain) - hence "overdrive".

Which is exactly what I prefer. I have a flamethrower (Ampeg Lee Jackson VL-1002). This is my blues box.

So what I'm saying is I'm essentially playing through the "clean" channel with these stomps.

Perfect

If volume is no issue, turn up the amp about 50-75% of max volume and use the stomp to goose the rest... this
is the optimal scenario and the system used by countless guitar legends.  Otherwise, the less the amp's gain is
pushed by itself, the more the stomp will have to compensate for equal amount of sustain and clipping.  Worst scenario
is you have your amp turned up to .5 volume and the stomp's gain cranked to 10 (buzz buzz buzz).  You want those
power t00bs to cook and sweat - that's where the "magic smoke" tone comes from.

It's a bit of a problem at home (the wife gets pissy when I play too loud with the 2-year-old at home), but not
otherwise. Needs me a good attenuator (Ampeg has one built in. Not a great one, but functional and no additional charge,
so I haven't bought another one yet).

But yeah, I'm a fan of letting the amp do most of the work, generally speaking.

There's a "HP" and "LP" (High Pass & Low Pass, respectively) switch.  HP of course will give more highs, LP more lows...
use accordingly with your amp's eq-ing.

I'm hoping the high pass helps clean up some of the mud.Seems like it doesn't matter what I do, even going so far as to
turn the bass all the way down out of desperation, if I touch the low E or anything below about the D on the A string,
all I hear is thick, gooey mud. Bleh.

All good advice. Thanks.

 

[Superlizard]

I'm hoping the high pass helps clean up some of the mud.

Is this mud you speak of apparent when you're going through the "clean" channel or "boost" or both?

 

[Damon]

Is this mud you speak of apparent when you're going through the "clean" channel or "boost" or both?

Both to some extent, but totally manageable on the clean channel when playing clean. Bass knob just shy of high noon and it sounds great with a little chorus. When using my Zakk pedal into the clean channel, it's still too thick, but that's more of a characteristic of that pedal. I've tried it on other Fender models and on a couple of Voxs (Voxes? Voxi?) and had similar issues. But on Marshalls and my Ampeg (which is honestly quite Marshall-esque) it sounds great. Kinda a one-trick pony in that regard, but hard to beat for the price in that application.

I'm considering modding the tone stack again to get the bass control into a more usable range, like getting it to where something like 2-3:00 is where I'd have it for what high-noon gives me now so that I can roll even more off if I need to. Last time I made some changes to the highs to make it sound how I wanted with my Strat and Tele (moved it to a bit of a higher frequency range to help tame the icepick-in-the-ear effect. It was kinda too much high-mids and not enough highs originally) and that worked nicely. Also changed the slope resistor hoping to make the drive channel useful, but it didn't seem to help. Seemed to be a minimal impact overall on the clean channel. But I may put that back to the original value while I'm at it just to see if it helps. I don't recall it being any less bassy before I did that, but who knows. I may well have effed the whole thing up and just didn't realize it at the time because of the way I was using it then. But it's always been too bassy for my Lester, even before I did that.

 

[Superlizard]

Is this mud you speak of apparent when you're going through the "clean" channel or "boost" or both?

Both to some extent, but totally manageable on the clean channel when playing clean. Bass knob just shy of high noon and it sounds great with a little chorus. When using my Zakk pedal into the clean channel, it's still too thick, but that's more of a characteristic of that pedal. I've tried it on other Fender models and on a couple of Voxs (Voxes? Voxi?) and had similar issues. But on Marshalls and my Ampeg (which is honestly quite Marshall-esque) it sounds great. Kinda a one-trick pony in that regard, but hard to beat for the price in that application.

I'm considering modding the tone stack again to get the bass control into a more usable range, like getting it to where something like 2-3:00 is where I'd have it for what high-noon gives me now so that I can roll even more off if I need to. Last time I made some changes to the highs to make it sound how I wanted with my Strat and Tele (moved it to a bit of a higher frequency range to help tame the icepick-in-the-ear effect. It was kinda too much high-mids and not enough highs originally) and that worked nicely. Also changed the slope resistor hoping to make the drive channel useful, but it didn't seem to help. Seemed to be a minimal impact overall on the clean channel. But I may put that back to the original value while I'm at it just to see if it helps. I don't recall it being any less bassy before I did that, but who knows. I may well have effed the whole thing up and just didn't realize it at the time because of the way I was using it then. But it's always been too bassy for my Lester, even before I did that.

I believe Fender amps have traditionally been flubby on bass when turned up - if the bass knob ain't doing enough cut, no doubt you'll have
to get in there and play with the guts.

BTW, did you just use the terms, "tone stack" and "slope resistor"?  Groovy - that's like a breath of fresh air around here; you know your stuff.  :icon_thumright:

I dunno if this will help, but checkout Duncan's Amp Pages for the Tone Stack Calculator:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html