Nuts

[joelavely]

I'm a beginner in lutherie work.  Just learning for my own fun.  Tried to approach nutwork last night.  I had ordered 10 "nut blanks" on Ebay, and they look great, but they are HUGE.  Literally large enough to make two or four electric nuts from each blank.  Problem is, I don't have the tools to cut the bigger blanks down to proper rough size, then actually do the "real" work (nut slots and proper sizing to the guitar).

Questions:

1 - Where do you all source properly-sized nut blanks?  I want to cut the slots myself, and I realize a little bit of sizing will be necessary, but these are WAY too big.  Probably designed for something else and I'm an idiot.

2 - How do you properly shape the top of the nut to match whatever radius you want?  Seems like freehand would be questionable.

3 - If the slot on the guitar where the nut sits is radiused, do you flatten it, or do you radius the bottom of your nut?  If you radius, I suppose #2 above will answer how.  If you flatten the nut slot on the guitar, what tools do you use to get it flat?

4 - For those of you that buy bigger pieces of bone (I have read about folks buying dog bones in pet stores and cutting them to size), what tools do you use to cut and shape the bones to "rough" blank size?


ASIDE:  I spent about two hours going through different tools to get the bigger "chunk" cut to a proper nut size.  First, I hand-sanded for a LONG time before realizing that wasn't going to get me there.  Then, I took a Dremel saw and cut one in half, which was helpful.  Then, I remembered I have a hand sander that vibrates, so that did a great job of getting a LOT of the extraneous material cut away.  Meanwhile, there is bone dust ALL OVER my damn basement.  Ultimately, the stupid nut broke in half in my vise as I was trying to finally sand it.  The moral as always - I don't have the right tools for this job!

Lavely

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

1: Stewmac
2: nut in a vise, larger files, and lots of time, lots of measuring every several strokes, radius guages, etc...  Stew macs DVD on nuts is a good tutorial.
3: The nut slot is rarely radius'd, I personally flatten them, there is a tool for this, also available at Stew Mac.
4: I've only ever used pre-cut blanks, I've never cut one from scratch from deer antlers like some friends have.  I'll save my deer antlers for knife handles, so I defer to other members on this one.

 

[Cagey]

Making/installing your own replacement nuts is a little bit like muffler replacement on a car. It's pretty obvious and straightforward if you have the tools and are set up for that kind of work, but otherwise it's no fun at all and makes little sense to do on your own. Most guitar repair shops will replace a nut for $25-$30, while the proper tools to do it on your own will run you $250-$400. That means that even disregarding labor and mistakes (it's frighteningly easy to wreck a nut), you have to make a bunch of them just to amortize your tool cost, or be so incredibly impatient that you don't care what it costs.

 

[joelavely]

Maybe I'm off base, but if the original bone piece is *fairly* close to the right size, aren't we talking some sandpaper and nut files?  And, as I discovered, perhaps a "nut seating file" to make sure the slot is flat?

The upside, in my mind, is that most nut work I have gotten back from even the local pros has been average at best.  Plus, any used guitar I receive almost ALWAYS looks like it could use work.

Am I off base?

 

[Cagey]

Maybe I'm off base, but if the original bone piece is *fairly* close to the right size, aren't we talking some sandpaper and nut files?  And, as I discovered, perhaps a "nut seating file" to make sure the slot is flat?

The upside, in my mind, is that most nut work I have gotten back from even the local pros has been average at best.  Plus, any used guitar I receive almost ALWAYS looks like it could use work.

Am I off base?

No, you're not too far off-base, but there is a bit more to it than that.

I don't mean to discourage you, I just don't want you to develop expectations that are difficult to meet without a lotta time/expense.

You're right - there are a many "pro" shops that will return less-than-stellar results. Unfortunately, the only truly reliable way to find out who they are is to waste some money. Too many guys figure to make a career out of guitar repair (which is actually a labor of love more than anything else), and a 1000 times more of them who are afraid to touch their guitars other than to play them. Makes for a messy field.

Some tools you might already have, or could be multi-purposed if you had to buy them. A nut vise, for instance, may be money you don't have to spend, or that you could spend differently as just about any vise can be used for that work. Shaping files aren't all that special, although they can be. Sandpaper or polishing paper is readily available. Gauged nut slot cutting saws are sorta special, but can be used to cut other things. A good set of gauged nut slot files will run you between $120-$150, and they're sorta critical. You really don't have much choice about getting a set of those unless you're just looking to be a hacker. You also need a slot spacing rule, although they're not terribly expensive. String height gauge is mighty handy, but surprisingly expensive. Many do that by feel.

Finally, you have to dare to suck. As I mentioned earlier, it's incredibly easy to blow a nut even if you've done it a million times. Since setting string height is one of the last things you'll do, and that's where it gets spooky. You've already got time into the thing, and if you cut a slot too deep, the nut's shot. Makes you invent new cuss words.

 

[dmraco]

I agree with Cagey.  I was thinking about purchasing nut files, but at a minimum of $10 each (for the cheap ones!) I will pass.  I recently had a nut filed to correct the action and was charged $25.  I also had a BRASS nut blank slotted and it cost me $35.  Unless you want to spend some serious cash on files and gauges, I would find a good luthier.  I have found that the stock Warmoth nuts to be almost the perfect hight.  I did have an issue with a Floyd shelf, but that was a simple file/sandpaper fix.

BTW....the brass nut is KILLER!  I have it on a les Paul jr copy I built (Precision) with a wolfetone p-90.....OMG. :guitarplayer2:


Sorry....had to throw this in too.

http://youtu.be/_0cgQkT4ScQ