Not a good day... take it in stride....
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kboman said:Marko said:kboman said:
haha! not anymore!!!
I know! It's great, maybe they will get an owner that take them seriously. GM did them no favours, that's for sure.
And to clear something up - Saab Automobile and Saab Aerospace are two separate entities.
1) despite the gm ownership the powertrain was not gm and it was the powertrain that failed me.
2) saab shamelessly advertises "born from jets" they should atleast try to back that up with there product; or maybe they do, that car is built so sloppy it is obserd, rubber everywhere, the axles feel like there gonna fall out and they leak tranny oil every where, this is the way jets are built because the high g loads distort the airframe so much they need to leave room for the distortion, very much a saab aproach to desing not a gm aproach, lets get it strait if saab had a great car they would not have been sold to gm. gm has nothing to do with the problems of this car, the comparison is like blaming gm for a problem with your carola because it is the same car as a geo/chevy metro, but both cars are made by suzuki. a saab is still very much a saab not a gm or atleast they were untill just a couple years ago!
Nando Vallart
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Hey Dan, somebody got to say you: Americans car are junkie... Lets call it "rough enginnering"...
I was always impressed that the BMW M3 (6 cylinders engine) was faster than the Dodge Viper ( V10 )
I was always impressed that the BMW M3 (6 cylinders engine) was faster than the Dodge Viper ( V10 )
erogenousjones17
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Sorry Dan, but a Corolla is not a Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift. It is a different car. The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe, however, are the same car.
dbw said:
+1. speed is subjective. all depends on what you want the car to do. american cars seem to be built with the quarter mile drag strip in mind. throw a few turns into the course and the M3 would dominate that poor viper. its really amazing and fascinating how much the popular styles of racing in different areas (gran prix and GT and such in europe, drag racing in the us) can affect how cars are built and what they're built to do.
Nando Vallart
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dbw said:
Sorry, the magazine that they tested it wasn't mine (it was on work) but I remember the M3 being faster even on 0-100km/h test... I say this because I was REALLY surprised... The engine of the Viper is "truck-size"...
The test was Ferrari 360 Modena, Dodge Viper, BMW M3 and one other that I can't really remember, think it was a Mercedez... the Viper was the slowest...
As Pirelli says: "power is nothing without control"*
*(this reminds me when I was going to give a shower on a newbie with the "water-cannon" to combat fire... I was 3 metres away from it and on the seconds step I fell and arrive at the ground just like Willy the Orca :laughing7
Dan025 said:kboman said:Marko said:kboman said:
haha! not anymore!!!
I know! It's great, maybe they will get an owner that take them seriously. GM did them no favours, that's for sure.
And to clear something up - Saab Automobile and Saab Aerospace are two separate entities.
1) despite the gm ownership the powertrain was not gm and it was the powertrain that failed me.
2) saab shamelessly advertises "born from jets" they should atleast try to back that up with there product; or maybe they do, that car is built so sloppy it is obserd, rubber everywhere, the axles feel like there gonna fall out and they leak tranny oil every where, this is the way jets are built because the high g loads distort the airframe so much they need to leave room for the distortion, very much a saab aproach to desing not a gm aproach, lets get it strait if saab had a great car they would not have been sold to gm. gm has nothing to do with the problems of this car, the comparison is like blaming gm for a problem with your carola because it is the same car as a geo/chevy metro, but both cars are made by suzuki. a saab is still very much a saab not a gm or atleast they were untill just a couple years ago!
Sorry, didn't mean to step on any toes here. I think cars are basically really stupid things and I don't care for them, apart from the design aspects. So I don't keep track of things like "powertrains" etcetera, but I do know that Saab cars share a common basic platform with several other GM brand cars. I'll say this: there is no "born from jets" stuff here, maybe because Swedes know better than to confuse the two? Also, all Saab owners I know love their cars. Nb, this does not mean that your issues are not legitimate.
I didn't know that Carola was an entity outside of Europe, but she certainly is a problem! :tard:
sorry i was just cranky, and dont get me wrong gm has some really really bad cars but nobody buys the good ones (mostly buicks) because they are geared towards old people, the people who want a semi luxury car buy bmw's because they drive better and are still sporty and look better ect, GM thinks they can still sell cars with advertising, wont improve a faulty product, and asks the government for support in a crissis they could have avoided being a part of if they ever studied what people are actually buying and not what they answer on a survey.
and as far as saab goes they are no worse than there non-german european competitions. i would fully expect this from a jaguar, fiat or alpha or whatever, which are european cars i love and would deal with it, hell i even like the saab despite some of the nonsense engineering i see in it. the thing that had me stressed was im about to start a new job and needed to be home to take a drug test and sign some forms and i was stuck 350 miles from where i needed to be, could have had it all fixed in 2 days if i were at my garage.
and as far as saab goes they are no worse than there non-german european competitions. i would fully expect this from a jaguar, fiat or alpha or whatever, which are european cars i love and would deal with it, hell i even like the saab despite some of the nonsense engineering i see in it. the thing that had me stressed was im about to start a new job and needed to be home to take a drug test and sign some forms and i was stuck 350 miles from where i needed to be, could have had it all fixed in 2 days if i were at my garage.
erogenousjones17
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Dan025 said:
Truer words have never been spoken. I'm a Chevy man at heart, and it pains me to see how far the Bowtie Boys and all the other folks at GM have sunk. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
i have a '79 chevy monte carlo, the original engine and trans had 400,000+ miles and would still be running today if i didn't get it when i was an immature teenager. it is off the road do to a serious need for body work and the gas is just too expensive. gm cars in the 70's-80's weren't much different than they were in the 60's just slower lower quality and cheaper looking plastic interiors. i'll tell you what though those old cars that had dated technology when they were new never left me stranded, never stripped the sparkplug holes, never blew ignition modules(if it did they are cheap anyway), the bearings in the transmission didn't fail causing irreparable damage to the unit, if the timing chains went it was cars built with plastic teeth on the gears to keep thing quiet(always hated those) but it didn't usually result in bent valves. the full chassis models of gm cars were even comfortable to drive, with new tire and good shocks you wouldn't believe the ride and handling, on par with many new cars and better than many new GM cars.
oh how did it go so wrong?
oh how did it go so wrong?
