New video: Body wood tone test - Alder vs Swamp Ash vs Mahogany

[aarontunes]

Don't discount roasted alder, though. In my opinion, the Strat Aaron played in this video has better clarity, much like the swamp ash, than most.

That was a particularly tasty combination of parts on that one. I could have taken that one home and showed it to Mom.

 

[aarontunes]

I wonder if having the exact same weight for the three bodies doesn't actually introduce a bias instead of removing one. Wouldn't you be having a lighter than average mahogany body and a heavier ash one?

What is the ideal weight for an Alder Tele® replacement body? What's the ideal weight for Swamp Ash? Mahogany?

Do you think doing a video using those weights would settle things, or create more debate?

 

[Cagey]

I know differing weights would have thrown a flag for me. Any time you change the mass of something inertia will cause it to respond differently to external forces (such as vibrating strings).

 

[rgand]

I know differing weights would have thrown a flag for me. Any time you change the mass of something inertia will cause it to respond differently to external forces (such as vibrating strings).

You mean if I soak my guitar in the bathtub it'll sound different? :laughing7:

Seriously, though, it would be an interesting comparison to pit a heavy body up against a light one of the same wood.

 

[Pelagaard]

I actually found it easier to hear a difference on the driven clips.

Now do it with a bass...

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Hey, The Aaron!

Man, that has a kinda "Majestic" overtone about it, huh?  :yourock:  Sometimes I create "Happy Accidents" with my poor proofreading........  :cool01:

I hope that my above post wasn't taken by you as any sorta criticism. I kinda think it wasn't, but wanted to make that clear.

I truly admire your playing ability in these videos, The Aaron! You play quite a few different styles, and do them all well. By comparison, my playing sucks like a bucketful of ticks.  :tard: I also fully realize that making these videos is not an easy thing to do. I appreciate your work on them. It kinda sucks (like another bucketful of ticks)that some folks are so quick to be critical. Please keep making the vids. They're interesting to me, and probably everyone here. I guess debates on the internet will never end, and they can be a "Good Thing", if done politely.  :icon_thumright:

 

[aarontunes]

Hey, The Aaron!
Man, that has a kinda "Majestic" overtone about it, huh?  :yourock:  Sometimes I create "Happy Accidents" with my poor proofreading........  :cool01:

I hope that my above post wasn't taken by you as any sorta criticism. I kinda think it wasn't, but wanted to make that clear.

I truly admire your playing ability in these videos, The Aaron! You play quite a few different styles, and do them all well. By comparison, my playing sucks like a bucketful of ticks.  :tard: I also fully realize that making these videos is not an easy thing to do. I appreciate your work on them. It kinda sucks (like another bucketful of ticks)that some folks are so quick to be critical. Please keep making the vids. They're interesting to me, and probably everyone here. I guess debates on the internet will never end, and they can be a "Good Thing", if done politely.  :icon_thumright:

No worries, The Mr. Neutron. It's all good....a little criticism is par for the course when you are a creative-type person, and when it's followed up with gushing praise it's all worth it.  :bananaguitar:


I am not easily offended.


Getting offended is for weenies.

 

[rgand]

Getting offended is for weenies.

:icon_thumright:

 

[Strat Avenger]

Maybe it's my cheeseball little speakers on my laptop I watched (and listened to) the video on, but I couldn't tell a nickel's worth of difference in any of them.  :dontknow: And I won't rule out my nearly 63 year old noise-tortured ears as another reason I couldn't hear a difference either, hee hee......  :laughing7: I wouldn't let this influence what type of wood I buy next.

However, I kinda feel there are, hard as Aaron tried, too many variables for a really accurate test. First and foremost is the Aaron himself. There can be subtle differences in his playing on each "session" that he couldn't keep from happening no matter how hard he tried. Were the strings changed when the hardware was changed over from one body to the next? I'd assume amp settings stayed constant, but what about the guitar's tone/volume control settings?

It's kinda like the different T-shirts. Everyone knows 50/50 cotton blend has warmer, richer high frequency tones with a chunkier mid-range and girthier bottom ends. Common knowledge......  ccasion14:

You need to listen with headphones.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

I listened with AKG 271mkII's and I honestly expected the outcome to be that any difference in sound was minimal at best... Guess that shows how easy it is to hear what you expect to hear...

 

[dmraco]

Great video Aaron.  I really enjoyed watching it.  I have always subscribed that electronics and amps make up 95% of the tone.  The rest is left to the wood and players fingers.

I could certainly hear the difference.  Again limited by my PC speakers, the swamp ash had the most snap and the mahogany is the most well rounded.  Alder seems a bit flat in the video, but I have several alder bodies and am 100% satisfied for each.  I have avoided ash just because it is a PIA to fill and can be heavy.  Every ash Warmoth I own has a Warmoth finish....I figured let the pros do it!

It really does surprise me how some particular pieces, independent of the species, can sound.  I commend your effort to keep the weights the same.  I have found that two pieces of similar weight wood can vary.  My son still claims his best sounding bass is one made of a 100 plus year old piece of pine we shaped into a body (it came from and old brothel).  We slapped on a Fender Geddy Lee neck and blam...amazing.  He was just stinging it up last night with new strings and I even commented on how well that sucker resonated.

When I have done builds for people I usually tell them go with what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.    We can shape tone to a certain point with electronics.  The only time I actively discouraged someone was someone who wanted to do a 100% walnut build. 

 

[AirCap]

I wonder if the players of violins, mandolins, and guitars argued about tonewoods BEFORE the advent of electronics. My guess is the existence, benefits, and enjoyment of tonewoods was never much in doubt for the last several centuries.

There is a reason for traditions such as respect for tonewoods. Stop arguing against history. You look stupid when you do.

 

[Pelagaard]

Because history is always right.

 

[GilmourD]

The difference may be subtle, but this was a test of one isolated subtle difference. When you add up subtle differences (neck wood, frets, bridge materials, etc.) they become a less-subtle total.

 

[jond4]

I could hear the differences, but they're too subtle for me to be concerned about. It's kinda like comparing a 3.6Ghz processor to a 3.8Ghz part - while tangible in certain scenarios, the practical differences aren't enough to sway a decision in the vast majority of cases. I'd be looking at weight and/or aesthetics long before "tone". Lighter weight is going to be more comfortable and respond differently to external influence, while aesthetics are purely subjective.

I'm completely with Cagey on this.....and have been of this opinion since I made my own discovery back in '92.

The difference in tonality regarding wood species for an electric guitar is so minimal that it is simply irrelevant.

 

[GilmourD]

I could hear the differences, but they're too subtle for me to be concerned about. It's kinda like comparing a 3.6Ghz processor to a 3.8Ghz part - while tangible in certain scenarios, the practical differences aren't enough to sway a decision in the vast majority of cases. I'd be looking at weight and/or aesthetics long before "tone". Lighter weight is going to be more comfortable and respond differently to external influence, while aesthetics are purely subjective.

I'm completely with Cagey on this.....and have been of this opinion since I made my own discovery back in '92.

The difference in tonality regarding wood species for an electric guitar is so minimal that it is simply irrelevant.

Yeah, but then take that subtle difference and add the subtle difference of the neck wood and it's less subtle. Add the subtle difference of bridge saddle material and the overall difference is even less subtle.

It's kinda like when I go to Target. I'll buy a bunch of stuff that barely fills a handbasket and nothing exceeds $4 per item. However, when I check out I've spent over $100. Little things add up.

 

[Cagey]

Sometimes differences aren't additive, they're subtractive. And sometimes, you don't want differences to add or subtract. All you can really say about the fact that there are a lot of variables in the construction of a guitar is that you never know exactly what it's going to sound like until it's built.

 

[GilmourD]

Sometimes differences aren't additive, they're subtractive. And sometimes, you don't want differences to add or subtract. All you can really say about the fact that there are a lot of variables in the construction of a guitar is that you never know exactly what it's going to sound like until it's built.

That is true. I've definitely put together guitars with perfectly fine parts that just didn't work together. I went through four necks before I found one that worked with my hardtail hard ash Strat body (which I just realized makes my post in the first Warmoth purchase thread a lie).

 

[AirCap]

I have gone back and listened to the video comparo over and over... There is definitely a difference, and my opinions about tonewoods and their qualities was confirmed yet again. I love mahogany, and I really dig ash. Not crazy about alder, but it does have its place in the sonic spectrum.

I was very surprised to hear Aaron say he didn't expect big differences... I mean, how could you work at a business that places a premium on marketing tonewood, and think there are no differences? WTH, Aaron? Guess you got an education, huh?

Finally... listen with high quality headphones or studio monitors. Cheezoid computer speakers and cellphones ARE NOT high fidelity, OK? I have Sennheiser headphones and they are very accurate and do not color the sound. Makes a diff, folks. Just like tonewood makes a diff.

And don't say science... A video is not science. It's just a video - however informative it may be. Thanks for making it.

 

[jond4]

People too often do not see the forest for the trees when it comes to electric guitar tone (wood pun intended).

strings - picks - pickups - potentiometer - wireless unit - effects - amp(s) - effects loop - speakers - volume - microphone(s) and so on.