New Roasted Maple Neck for the SSB

[davegardner0]

The purple bass I built two years ago has seen some pretty heavy use lately from its owner (my wife). She really likes it BUT ever since I got my roasted maple neck for my black telecaster the bass's old plain maple, gloss finished neck has been seeming a little sticky and slow to her. Plus, it seems to need a truss rod adjustment about every two months to keep the action from getting high and I'm a little tired of that.

So...you can probably guess what's coming! We're thinking about a roasted maple 30" SSB neck from the showcase. I've just been SO SO impressed with Warmoth's roasted maple so far, for both playing feel and stability.

One thing I've been thinking about though is fret size. For the existing neck I went with regular 6150 "jumbo" frets. But one piece of feedback she's given me is that pretty much any additional thinness of the neck would be a good thing for her. So for this neck I'm thinking of going with the small 6230 frets, in stainless so they don't wear fast. I've noticed with guitar necks that as the frets get lower the neck definitely starts to feel thinner front-to-back. Plus she says that when she plays, her small fingers don't actually touch anything besides the bass strings. She actually doesn't care about fretboard material because of this (she never touches it) so I'm thinking it'll be the same for the frets.

So my question is, can anybody think of a reason why the small vintage frets wouldn't be good on a bass? A quick perusal of the internet's forum wisdom seems to suggest that most guitar players like larger frets for bending (me included) but many bass players seem to prefer the smaller frets. A lot of them also seem to not care at all about fret size.

What do you guys think??

Bonus: some pics from our band's gig last weekend, with the SSB in action!

 

[Cagey]

To my way of thinking, when it comes to fret height, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Bass players generally have less need of the ability to bend/vibrate strings, so the additional control tall frets bring isn't the advantage that guitar players enjoy. Regardless, I also don't see the additional 8 or 10 thousandths of an inch in height changing the "thickness" feel of the neck.

As for wear, regardless of size, just put stainless on there and put that thought out of your mind. For all intents and purposes, they don't wear.

 

[bagman67]

Regardless, I also don't see the additional 8 or 10 thousandths of an inch in height changing the "thickness" feel of the neck.

In defense of Dave's wife, Cagey, you are yourself a proponent of the "you'd be surprised how significant even a tiny variation can feel" adage. 

 

[Cagey]

True enough. But, fingers are one thing, while the hand is another. Your fingers are sensitive enough to feel the difference between a satin vs. gloss finish. I'm less confident in the hand's ability to feel the difference between .800" and .810", although I know you can. But, is it going to change your reach around the neck shaft?

 

[davegardner0]

I definitely know the small frets won't make a huge difference! It's more of an idea of just getting her every little bit of reach that's possible. Sounds like stainless steel would negate one of the big disadvantages (fast wear) of small frets.

 

[davegardner0]

Alright well I ordered the neck! Very exciting 

Now I'm thinking about a headstock design. On the original neck for this bass I made a waterslide decal with a cool triple bass clef logo my wife and I came up with. I'm not planning on finishing this neck though, so a bare exposed waterslide decal will be kind of fragile. Luckily my inlay skills have improved quite a bit since I first built this bass, so I'm thinking of inlaying the same design.

For a "normal" inlay, I'd use pearl or black plastic or something, then fill in the gaps with sawdust and wick in super glue. But unfortunately I'm not sure where I'd get a scrap roasted maple piece to make the matching sawdust with.

I emailed Warmoth to ask if they could send me a small roasted maple scrap with my neck, but they said no because all shipments must be inventory controlled. (does this seem reasonable?)

My other idea is to do a black epoxy inlay instead of pearl. I haven't tried this technique before but it seems straightforward. The black color would look nice with the maple neck, and I wouldn't have to cut out anything. Has anyone done an inlay like this? I found this nice tutorial:
https://www.woodsmith.com/files/issues/173/adding-an-epoxy-inlay.pdf

I'm not planning on finishing the neck though, so, I'm not sure what's the best thing to use to seal the inside of the inlay cavity (so that the black glue doesn't wick into the surrounding neck wood). Maybe shellac or super glue, just brushed onto the inside of the inlay cavity?

Has anyone tried this? Any thoughts or words of wisdom?

 

[Sovereign_13]

Out of curiosity, I hopped onto Woodcraft's site (because it's the only woodworking shop I know of), and they seem to carry roasted maple as a "pen blank" (which I assume is for making wood pen bodies).  They even carry it as "honey roasted" and "dark roasted", which seems to refer to color.

I am not a woodworker by any means, so I have no idea if Woodcraft sells good stuff or if it's junk, but it seems to be a good indicator that small-ish bits of roasted maple should be available on the general market for a reasonable price.  I don't know if they would have "scrap" they'd give you or sell you for cheap, either (damaged shipments, returned products, etc).

 

[TBurst Std]

They do sell scraps as well as samples. Availability varies. 
Let me
Clarify, Woodcraft does

 

[davegardner0]

They do sell scraps as well as samples. Availability varies.

From Warmoth:

Hello Dave,



Thank you for your interest in Warmoth.



Unfortunately all items that ship must be accounted for and scraps are not included within our inventoried items. Sorry my friend but we cannot supply a piece of scrap along with your neck order.



If you have any other questions feel free to reply to this email or call the number below directly.



Best Regards,

I was surprised...I'm sure they have a ton of little scraps. They can't throw one into the box because it's not inventoried?

 

[Sovereign_13]

I think Tburst meant Woodcraft also has scraps and samples, not Warmoth.

 

[davegardner0]

I think Tburst meant Woodcraft also has scraps and samples, not Warmoth.

Hah! Yep, my bad.

There's a Woodcraft store an hour and a half away from here...it's a really cool place for all things woodworking! I like their store a lot. They have a nice selection of exotic woods, as well as tools. I'm not sure if they'd have torrefied maple in the store or just online, but either way it's worth a try.

 

[Logrinn]

Maybe Warmoth could help you with what you really wanted, ie not a scrap of roasted maple but some roasted maple sawdust?
A small plastic bag filled with it should suffice for many inlays I would imagine ...

 

[bagman67]

From a management perspective, Warmoth is likely to hold the philosophy that "we don't put anything in outbound boxes that isn't part of the merchandise we offer for sale."  This cuts down on special treatments, reducing time costs; and it diminishes the likelihood of stuff going out the door that isn't accounted for somehow, diminishing loss/pilferage.  I'm sure one little scrap of roasted maple seems like no big deal to any one of us individually, but with the number of packages going out the door at Warmoth's end, it could become a measurable impact on margins in the long run.  It's one of the choices a small business has to make in the interest of growing over time - some of the nice little individual touches become harder to deliver at scale.

 

[davegardner0]

From a management perspective, Warmoth is likely to hold the philosophy that "we don't put anything in outbound boxes that isn't part of the merchandise we offer for sale."  This cuts down on special treatments, reducing time costs; and it diminishes the likelihood of stuff going out the door that isn't accounted for somehow, diminishing loss/pilferage.  I'm sure one little scrap of roasted maple seems like no big deal to any one of us individually, but with the number of packages going out the door at Warmoth's end, it could become a measurable impact on margins in the long run.  It's one of the choices a small business has to make in the interest of growing over time - some of the nice little individual touches become harder to deliver at scale.

I think you're exactly right, it's different from their side than it is from mine. If they did it for me, they'd have to do it for everybody, etc. You're right, that sort of special stuff becomes harder as the company grows too.

Interestingly one time I emailed Warmoth asking if I could buy a roasted maple neck blank and got a similar response (we only sell roasted maple as a finished neck, only plain maple is available as a blank). I wonder if it's also a strategic business decision. Their torrefication process is probably proprietary and I'll bet took a fair bit of R&D investment. If they keep the wood for themselves then nobody can copy their (awesome) roasted maple necks. Similarly for their exotic woods their supply routes are probably proprietary and I'd guess took a whole lot of effort to establish. So only selling that wood as finished necks keeps that competitive advantage.

I'm just guessing/thinking out loud, of course. I have no evidence so this is just a hypothesis.

 

[timezon3]

Regarding the epoxy inlay option, I have done this using clear epoxy, and mixed in tint (aniline powders, the same stuff you might use to dye a guitar body), and it worked.  I mean, I'm a sucky woodworker, and the inlay part itself wasn't cut very well (picture trying to do it by hand with a dremel), but it came out OK anyways.  (I inlaid an Om symbol into an oak meditation bench.)  If you can do that part better than I can (and it sounds like you can), then it should work for you.  It definitely takes a lot of sanding to not have the epoxy anywhere but the inlay, but it works.  I am unfortunately in the middle of a big move, so the item in question is boxed away in storage somewhere, or I'd take a pic for you.

going back and looking at your link, I'm pretty sure I read the same article before I did my project.

TZ

 

[davegardner0]

Regarding the epoxy inlay option, I have done this using clear epoxy, and mixed in tint (aniline powders, the same stuff you might use to dye a guitar body), and it worked.  I mean, I'm a sucky woodworker, and the inlay part itself wasn't cut very well (picture trying to do it by hand with a dremel), but it came out OK anyways.  (I inlaid an Om symbol into an oak meditation bench.)  If you can do that part better than I can (and it sounds like you can), then it should work for you.  It definitely takes a lot of sanding to not have the epoxy anywhere but the inlay, but it works.  I am unfortunately in the middle of a big move, so the item in question is boxed away in storage somewhere, or I'd take a pic for you.

going back and looking at your link, I'm pretty sure I read the same article before I did my project.

TZ

Yeah that article seems pretty good! Just wondering, how much and what type of finish did you put on the inside of the inlay cavity to make sure things didn't bleed? I ask because...


I tried a little "demo" on a piece of home depot poplar last night. First I routed out the cavity using my dremel + router base, and then a knife for the tight sections:


Then I filled it in with black epoxy from Stew-Mac. I have to wait 3 days before I can sand it (it's slow cure epoxy) but I do see some bleeding around the walls of the inlay. I painted on some shellac to both the surface of the wood (before routing) and the insides of the inlay cavity before adding the epoxy. Not sure if I didn't use enough, or maybe used the wrong sealant? Any ideas from anyone?

 

[davegardner0]

I sanded my test inlay after the epoxy finished curing. All in all, pretty good! I definitely had some bad wicking into the wood, but I do think the design itself looks pretty good. I just need to seal the sides of the inlay better for the real thing...

 

[Wolff05]

From a management perspective, Warmoth is likely to hold the philosophy that "we don't put anything in outbound boxes that isn't part of the merchandise we offer for sale."  This cuts down on special treatments, reducing time costs; and it diminishes the likelihood of stuff going out the door that isn't accounted for somehow, diminishing loss/pilferage.  I'm sure one little scrap of roasted maple seems like no big deal to any one of us individually, but with the number of packages going out the door at Warmoth's end, it could become a measurable impact on margins in the long run.  It's one of the choices a small business has to make in the interest of growing over time - some of the nice little individual touches become harder to deliver at scale.

I think the original scenario is assuming someone can turn around and bend down to pick up a wood scrap and throw it in the box as it is getting taped up. Instead it would take no less than 6 people to make this work: Quality Control, Customer Service, Neck Crew, "shuttle" driver between buildings, Order Picking, and finally Shipping. All pulled off their regularly scheduled tasks of making Cagey's order. And we don't want to make Cagey cranky.  arty07:

 

[Cagey]

There is no Cagey! Only Zuul!​

 

[timezon3]

Yeah that article seems pretty good! Just wondering, how much and what type of finish did you put on the inside of the inlay cavity to make sure things didn't bleed? I ask because...


I tried a little "demo" on a piece of home depot poplar last night. First I routed out the cavity using my dremel + router base, and then a knife for the tight sections:


Then I filled it in with black epoxy from Stew-Mac. I have to wait 3 days before I can sand it (it's slow cure epoxy) but I do see some bleeding around the walls of the inlay. I painted on some shellac to both the surface of the wood (before routing) and the insides of the inlay cavity before adding the epoxy. Not sure if I didn't use enough, or maybe used the wrong sealant? Any ideas from anyone?

I didn't use any sealant that I remember, but I was using a different wood species, and obviously you need something.  I would probably just try a thin coat of whatever your top coat is going to be - i.e. if you're going to brush on some polyurethane after doing the inlay, do a coat before doing the inlay, then do the inlay, then sand, then do final polyurethane top coat.  Something like that.

TZ