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New pedals and tubes... what do I do now?

hannaugh

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Everything I ordered with my Christmas money (finally) arrived!  The pedals are awesome, but the tubes... what do I do now?  Can anyone recommend a good online resource that can guide me through installation and bias adjustment?  I got a few pages from Torres Engineering with the tubes, but there aren't any pictures, and I need pictures with instructions or I end up doing things wrong sometimes.  And I have a feeling that doing things wrong with an amp could result in hospital/funeral bills.  I'm off to google it, but any pointers are more than welcome. 

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Found the schematic.

Hokay, let's do the pre-amp tubes first, then the power tubes

0 - power down the amp.  Let it sit for awhile.  There are bleed resistors in this circuit, so it should discharge after 20 min or so.  It's also handy to do this to cool off the tubes.
1 - remove the tube shields.  These are the metal covers on the pre-amp tubes.  These are held on by a bayonet type lock.  Push up, then twist, counter clockwise as viewed from the bottom.
2 - remove the first tube.  Let's use the one on the end.  Grasp it by the end and slowly wiggle the end around in a small circle while pulling it away from the socket.  it should pull out after a few small circles.  Note the position of the 'key' (the absence of a pin).
3 - choose the tube to put in it's place.  You've got quite a variety there, so you can experiment.  The first position is the most sensitive, so you want a quiet tube in there - but then I've also had good luck with high gain tubes in the first position.  Pick one (i'd choose that mullard, actually. why not.).
4 - orient the new tube so the 'key' lines up the same way the old one was.  Looking at the socket helps.  it also helps to kinda put the tube in there with light pressure and feel if you're in the right spot or not.  Once you feel you're in the right spot, apply some pressure with the same wiggle circular motion to insert the tube.  It should go in with a bit of force, but you should not have to really push on it.  It's a little bit more than, say, pushing in the cigarette lighter in your 68 'cuda.
5 - power the sucker up and give it a try.  leave the shelds off for now.  With the standby off, check to see that you've got the heater lighting.  take it off standby and wait for a bit and see if it makes guitar noise.  If so, have a beer and play for a bit.  Then repeat 0 to 5 for the remaining pre-amp tubes
6 - re-install the shields.  Ensure that the holes of the springs are going over the ends of the glass where the envelopes were sealed.  This makes more sense once you have a look inside the shield.


Now the power tubes.

Well, turns out that this amp does not have a bias adjustment.  The bias voltage is set to -46.7 (at least according to the schematic) and that's that.  
sooo - you're taking a little bit of a risk here.  If you have a bias probe, you can at least see if the bias current is in the ballpark.  The probe should have instructions for this.  

Now on to replacing the tubes
0 - power down and let it cool off.  I'd let it sit for 1/2 hour so that those tubes are cool.
1 - There should be a spring lock holding the base of the tubes in.  Push up on the wings of the lock to dis-engage it.
2 - grasp the end of the tube and use the same wiggle/circle motion while pulling to pull it out.
3 - do the same thing with the other tube (replace them in pairs)
4 - on octal socket power tubes, the key is a little "speedbump" that is on the circular alignment pin.  Align this to the appropriate slot in the socket, and push the tube in, using the same wiggle/circular motion.  again it should go in with that slightly more than a cigarette lighter pressure.
5 - repeat 4 with the other tube.
6 - power up that sucker.  Wait for the tubes to glow.
7 - take 'er of standby and ensure that the amp is not freaking out with strange sounds, or that the plates of the new tubes are not turning cherry red on you.  A bit of blue is OK.   Cherry red is bad.  If you see cherry red at any time turn it off.
8 - play some guitar.  If it's sounding good, have another beer.
9 - play that sucker all night while continuously drinking beer, checking the plates of the power tubes to ensure they're not turning red on you.
10 - go to bed happy and drunk. The end.

edit - fixed spelling errors.
 
No real risk unless the new tubes are way out of spec (see above reference to Cherry Red being bad). Basically, it may sound a little better or worse than it did with the old tubes depending on how close the fixed value is to the true bias of the tubes.
 
Okay.  So I'm going to try installing the tubes, and if I get a bad color, I'm going to... take it to a tech and say "Make it sound good."  Yeah?  Does that sound like a plan?  I mean, I can have them put in a bias adjuster, right?  It's pretty dumb that Fender didn't bother putting one in if you ask me.
 
I've seen on other amps like Mesa's that have a "fixed" bias, where a tech has added a bias pot... :dontknow:
 
Are those Tung-Sol power tubes 6L6's? If so, you shouldn't need to worry about bias adjustment. What I have in mine are Sovtek 12AX7WA in V1/V2 slots (gives a little bit darker sound) and a vintage old stock 12AT7 in V3; still have the original OEM Groove Tubes 6L6 power tubes. The most important upgrade to this amp is to shitcan the stock speaker and install a Celestion Vintage 30 or other premium speaker of your choice; that will do more to improve tone than swapping tubes.

To get a completely different "Marshally" sound, replace V1/V2/V3 with ECC83's and replace the power tubes with either YellowJackets or Substi-Tube sockets with an EL84 duet, you'll cut the output power to 18-20 watts, but get a really different sound for around $150 or so.
 
jackthehack said:
Are those Tung-Sol power tubes 6L6's? If so, you shouldn't need to worry about bias adjustment. What I have in mine are Sovtek 12AX7WA in V1/V2 slots (gives a little bit darker sound) and a vintage old stock 12AT7 in V3; still have the original OEM Groove Tubes 6L6 power tubes. The most important upgrade to this amp is to shitecan the stock speaker and install a Celestion Vintage 30 or other premium speaker of your choice; that will do more to improve tone than swapping tubes.

To get a completely different "Marshally" sound, replace V1/V2/V3 with ECC83's and replace the power tubes with either YellowJackets or Substi-Tube sockets with an EL84 duet, you'll cut the output power to 18-20 watts, but get a really different sound for around $150 or so.
She wouldn't have to worry with the bias, as long as they are a matched set correct... :icon_scratch:
 
DangerousR6 said:
jackthehack said:
Are those Tung-Sol power tubes 6L6's? If so, you shouldn't need to worry about bias adjustment. What I have in mine are Sovtek 12AX7WA in V1/V2 slots (gives a little bit darker sound) and a vintage old stock 12AT7 in V3; still have the original OEM Groove Tubes 6L6 power tubes. The most important upgrade to this amp is to shiteecan the stock speaker and install a Celestion Vintage 30 or other premium speaker of your choice; that will do more to improve tone than swapping tubes.

To get a completely different "Marshally" sound, replace V1/V2/V3 with ECC83's and replace the power tubes with either YellowJackets or Substi-Tube sockets with an EL84 duet, you'll cut the output power to 18-20 watts, but get a really different sound for around $150 or so.
She wouldn't have to worry with the bias, as long as they are a matched set correct... :icon_scratch:

Sadly not true.  The bias sets the operating point for the tube (as measured using plate current at idle) and it still can vary considerably even though the tubes are matched to each other.  In fact, a single pot, although allowing you to adjust the bias of the pair, assumes that the pair is matched.  In HIFI applications, there is a separate bias pot for each TUBE - not just a single pot for all tubes. 

Regarding running it with fixed bias - If you're not getting a cherry red plate and it sounds good, I would not be overly concerned.  If you do have a bias probe, it would be worth knowing the plate current just for SIG.
 
Just for the record:

"12AX7" is the American nomenclature for the same British "ECC83" t00b

Brits & Americans had/have differing nomenclatures for most (the same) t00bs.

More examples:

EL84 (Brit) = 6BQ5 (American) / powert00b
EL34 (Brit) = 6CA7 (American) / powert00b
GZ34 (Brit) = 5AR4 (American) / rectifier t00b

etc
 
Okay, I put them in there.  Now a question:  They're glowing blue, but there's a little filament thingy that is an amber color.  I noticed that in my old tubes as well.  It's mostly a blue glow, but with some little amber bits above and below the main parts inside the glass.  Is this okay?

I hope so because IT SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER!
 
hannaugh said:
Okay, I put them in there.  Now a question:  They're glowing blue, but there's a little filament thingy that is an amber color.  I noticed that in my old tubes as well.  It's mostly a blue glow, but with some little amber bits above and below the main parts inside the glass.  Is this okay?

I hope so because IT SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER!

Yep, the amber thing is the heater filament.  Does it look kinda like a candle wick (same kind of glow, same thickness) at the top and bottom of the plates?  That's the heater.

Sounds like you're good to go!  have fun.

BTW - When installing, did you drink the beer?  This is a very important step that cannot be overlooked.  :occasion14:
 
Alas, no. It's morning here... but it's 12pm in two minutes!  I think I need a Cooper's Ale with lunch/practice. 
 
It should have a bias pot in there.  Here is the service manual for the combined Blues Deluxe/DeVille.  The difference between the amps is really just the amount of power that they produce (so different power section parts) but the preamps are the same.  The bias pot should be in the middle of the insides there above the big gray electrolytic caps.  Anyways, it sounds like it is up and running so no need to mess around in there.  I have always found the Hotrod and Blues series of amps to have a lot of burrs on the chassis.  Never seem to get one apart and back together without getting cut on something.  Nice to hear that it is working out for you.
Patrick

 
That's the manual for the reissue, I have the original amp from the early 90s.  I looked, there's no bias pot anywhere to be seen. 

Thanks so much, Trevor and everyone!  I'm so relieved that it seems to be working fine. 

Now... what does a cap job accomplish?  Also, I have heard that replacing the volume pot with an audio taper will give me more room to adjust the volume before my neighbors start to hate me.  Is this true, and if so, how do I do that?  Just de-solder it and solder a new one in, or is there more to it?
 
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