New peavey vypyr

[labguitar1003]

Guys i need your help on this one, i need to find a 8in. 4 ohm speaker that will give me a good marshally tone. :dontknow:

Amp Specs
Bugera BC15
12ax7 swapped out for el34
15 watt amp
original is bugera vintage speaker
originally voiced like dark fender

Really hope you guys can help me with this one.  :headbang:

 

[jimh]

Are you sure about that tube swap?  You cant change a preamp tube for a power amp tube.  12AX7 (ECC83) are not compatible with EL34s.  They are an entirely different base layout. It wont fit in the same socket, let alone the electronic differences in the circuits required to drive them.

It looks to me like the BC 30 has a single valve in the Preamp, and a solid state power amp. 

A speaker change wont necessarily get you a 'Marshally' tone.  It'll just sound different.  Most modern Marshall amps are fitted with some sort of Celestion.  I've got a couple of Celestion Vintage 30's, and also a "Greenback' (which is a bit darker than V30).  I'd say give those a try if you can find a 8 Inch Celestion which will do the job.  Dont expect a 8 inch speaker to give you the same roar as a full on Marshall at full chat though.  You just cant move enough air.

Think you may need to do a little more research on this project  :dontknow:
ccasion14:

 

[Cagey]

Jim's right. Those tubes are not only incompatible, they won't even go in the same socket. And you're not going to get a "Marshally" tone just by changing the speaker.

Additionally, that 12AX7 tube is just the preamp. The power amp in that unit is a transistor. It's a similar design to the Kustom Tube 12A. Also, like the Kustom, it gets its dirt from clipping diodes in the preamp, not from overdriving anything. So, it's always going to sound a bit "fizzy".

You're better off with a pedal of some sort feeding the clean channel if you want a decent "dirty" sound.

 

[mayfly]

+1 to all of the above, but I will add that an 8" speaker with any reasonable Marshall guitar tone (that is, cut in high frequency response around 4K) will be hard to find.  The only guitar speaker that will fit is a Jensen designed for a champ:

http://jensentone.com/p8r.php

not going to be very Marshally.  However, that circuit topology is not going to get you very close anyway.

I suggest starting with another amp.

 

[Paul-less]

I heard EVH plugged one of his speaker cables into the 2nd input, and the other into a cab, then cranked it to 10.


I'm thinking that's the closest you're gonna get to it.















But seriously, don't. I can't be responsible for another death. Listen to mayfly. He even has his own signature amp!

 

[labguitar1003]

wow!!, my guitar tech was way wrong,
The main reason im doing this is because my amp is voiced really dark, it is very bassy with a humbucker guitar with the treble turned all the way up, gain not even at 8 o' clock and bass at 9 o' clock. but it sounds great with a tele copy i have like a twangy humbucker.

 

[Paul-less]

Are those humbuckers EMG's? That COULD be your problem.

Since I moved up from SS to Tube, I noticed that my active puppies all sucked. I had a set of EMGs and a set of SD Blackouts.

 

[labguitar1003]

Are those humbuckers EMG's? That COULD be your problem.

Since I moved up from SS to Tube, I noticed that my active puppies all sucked. I had a set of EMGs and a set of SD Blackouts.

no they are passive pickups, and whats worse is my guitar was built to brighter in sound being made of maple.  :sad1:

 

[jimh]

Hang on a sec.  Are you after a brighter sound or darker.

"Marshall" type sounds tend to be voiced a bit bit darker than "Fender" style sounds. But you say you amp is quite dark already.

The main reason im doing this is because my amp is voiced really dark, it is very bassy with a humbucker guitar with the treble turned all the way up, gain not even at 8 o' clock and bass at 9 o' clock. but it sounds great with a tele copy i have like a twangy humbucker.

I'm confused as to what you are trying achieve.  Is there a particular artist or sound you are trying to emulate?
If you are actually trying to brighten your sound then the little Jensen Mayfly suggested will do the trick.

:icon_scratch:

 

[labguitar1003]

I'm confused as to what you are trying achieve.   Is there a particular artist or sound you are trying to emulate?
If you are actually trying to brighten your sound then the little Jensen Mayfly suggested will do the trick.

:icon_scratch:

the way my amp is now its is dark voiced, it works great with a tele (single coils), but is very bassy with little treble on humbuckers, What i want is an amp that will get me near an ACDC feel, in the ballpark of hard rock/ metal. the other thing i want to do is get it modded to do some higher gain stuff ec. Metallica

 

[Superlizard]

the way my amp is now its is dark voiced, it works great with a tele (single coils), but is very bassy with little treble on humbuckers, What i want is an amp that will get me near an ACDC feel, in the ballpark of hard rock/ metal. the other thing i want to do is get it modded to do some higher gain stuff ec. Metallica

JTM45-type t00b amp with various stompboxes for various amounts of gain.

 

[jimh]

OK. Cool.

Check out exactly what that tube swap was.  You may be able to find a better 12AX7 which "might" improve things.  

I agree with what the guys above, Cagey and Mayfly, said.  The circuit your amp currently has won't get you into Marshall territory.  The solid state power amp circuit and the fact that the amp is built PCB style will make it fairly hard to modify in any major way, unless you rip the guts out entirely and re-build with an all tube circuit.  It's not beyond the realms of possibility, some of us on here have done it. But I suspect, by the time you've spent a lot of time, effort and money modding the amp (either yourself, or paying a tech to do it for you), you'd have been better of selling it and buying something which gets you more into the ball park of what you are looking for.

I think maybe the Jensen speaker may help, but I think you'd benefit from a decent drive/distortion pedal to get your heavier tones.
Better still get an amp with power tubes as well as pre-amp tubes.

You don't have to spend a lot of money.  Look at the Jet City stuff like Max got.  Lets see if we can get Max to chime in on this for his opinions of the Jet City stuff?

ccasion14:

Also +1 to what SL said above

 

[labguitar1003]

so lets just say i put a high gain mesa/boogie 12ax7 in my amp would that maybe help?
I also might swap the speaker with a jensen mod8-20 or C8R

http://www.jensentone.com/mod8-20.php

 

[jimh]

It would be a 'relatively' inexpensive start  :icon_thumright:

Gotta be worth a try

 

[Cagey]

so lets just say i put a high gain mesa/boogie 12ax7 in my amp would that maybe help?
I also might swap the speaker with a jensen mod8-20.

http://www.jensentone.com/mod8-20.php

First, Mesa Boogie doesn't make tubes, they sell binned Russian or Chinese tubes, just like everybody else. Second, the 12AX7 is already the high-gain version of the 12A-7 series, with the 12AU7 and 12AT7 being the lower and medium gain versions. Some tubes of the same type will sound noticeably different due to age, wear, and manufacturing tolerance variations, but it's not as dramatic as some of the evangelists would have you believe. Certainly not enough to make the change you're looking for.

For what a speaker and tube would cost you, your money would probably be better spent on a magic stompbox of some sort. If money's tight, you can get a lot of bang for the buck from Behringer. For instance, check out this "trio" package...

It includes a Distortion Pedal, Digital Delay Pedal, Multi-FX Pedal (chorus, flange, vibrato, etc.), 1 10' Instrument Cable and 2 Short Patch Cables for $65 at B&H Photo/Video. They're not the final word in effects, but they're better than what most of us grew up with, and they're cheap enough to be disposable.

 

[mayfly]

so lets just say i put a high gain mesa/boogie 12ax7 in my amp would that maybe help?
I also might swap the speaker with a jensen mod8-20 or C8R

http://www.jensentone.com/mod8-20.php

As Cagey said, chaining the 12ax7 is not going to do much for you, especially in this circuit.  I'm now thinking swapping the speaker is a waste of time for what you want.

If money is tight, just sell the amp and get one of those Vox VT-15s.  Or, if money is available, go all the way and pick up a marshall or marshall type amp, with a good cabinet with a celestion of your choice in it.  This probably is not the direction you really want, sorry about that - but it's my best recommendation.

 

[labguitar1003]

So guess what, the controls are going screwy on me, the bass doesn't work and the gain hisses, and guess what my tone is now flat and lifeless with the bass its like turned up all the way and you cant turn it down. this amp is turning into a mess. 

well now i gotta start lookin for a new amp, good thing i filled that warranty. I'm just gonna send it back and get me something better, open for suggestions.

 

[jimh]

Check that tube that you swapped.  Put the original one back in.

 

[pabloman]

Get an Epi Valve JR. and call it good.

 

[labguitar1003]

Check that tube that you swapped.  Put the original one back in.

i havent swapped anything yet. thankfully