Need help with neck selection

[Stratmeup]

Hello,

So, I've been trying to replicate my 1979/80 solid rosewood Schecter neck, which was manufactured for Schecter by Warmoth.

I spoke with the good folks at Warmoth when I began my mission and they could not recall what exactly they were doing for Schecter at the time. So I bought a beautiful Goncalo Alves Standard thin neck.

Ooops, too thin. So, I then bought a 59 Roundback Paduak/Ebony 10/16 Warmoth Pro. Gorgeous instrument. OOOpps, too thick.

The folks at Warmoth tell me that they have some people buy 59 roundbacks and sand them to their taste, but I'm a little reluctant to start sanding this beautiful piece of work.

Anyone had any experience sanding down overly large necks? Should I just sell this one and choose another neck?

Thanks,

 

[Orpheo]

never ever SAND down a neck like rosewood,pau ferro or similar. You'll dull the wood.

Please, use a supersharp scraper. A scraper won't scratch, a scraper will just scrape off wood. I've done it a billion times. I just took a hardy, stout drink and took a supersharp knife and started scraping away. An hour later, covered in bubinga dust and scrapes, I had a lovely neck.

 

[Stratmeup]

Thanks, I'm not a woodworker, so I am unfamiliar with what a scraper might look like. If it's a flat tool, how do you keep the neck contour correct?

 

[bagman67]

If you like the profile on the Schecter neck, you can replicate it using a locking profile gauge such as this one at Woodcraft:


http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004860/7707/WoodRiver-Plastic-Profile-Copy-Gauge-Standard-5-Width.aspx


Press the gauge down on the portion of the neck you want to replicate and lock the tines; then use that as your template for the new neck.  Shave or sand the new neck down, checking frequently against the profile gauge.  When it fits, you're done.  Since the profile likely tapers, maybe you'll  want two or three - or you can use the gauge to mark and cut permanent templates in plywood or MDF, but that may be more effort than you feel like putting in for a one-off.

 

[Orpheo]

Thanks, I'm not a woodworker, so I am unfamiliar with what a scraper might look like. If it's a flat tool, how do you keep the neck contour correct?

it's a flat tool, and it looks like just the blade of a knife without the handle. You don't use the entire width of the blade to scrape. it's like smearing a sandwich. You can choose to use a small portion of your knife to smear the butter, but also a large area.

in this case, you use a relative small area (flat on round is always a small area, compare that with a wheel of a train on a train track) and you scrape away as if you would peel an apple with an apple peeler (or a potatoe). Hope that helps.

 

[bagman67]

With due respect, Orpheo, these necks are sanded at the factory.  I don't think sanding the neck to thin the profile is going to harm the neck.  It's wood, and sanding with an appropriate series of increasingly fine grits will result in a fine, unfinished surface.    However, I do agree that using a spokeshave or a wood scraper may do the trick equally well.

Here's some info from Woodcraft on the use and care of scrapers:


http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/77A19.pdf


One thing to bear in mind is that some folks have an allergic reaction to wood dust, particularly with some of the tropical hardwoods, so use a dust mask if you're going to undertake a major reprofiling with abrasives.

 

[Stratmeup]

If you like the profile on the Schecter neck, you can replicate it using a locking profile gauge such as this one at Woodcraft:


http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004860/7707/WoodRiver-Plastic-Profile-Copy-Gauge-Standard-5-Width.aspx


Press the gauge down on the portion of the neck you want to replicate and lock the tines; then use that as your template for the new neck.  Shave or sand the new neck down, checking frequently against the profile gauge.  When it fits, you're done.  Since the profile likely tapers, maybe you'll  want two or three - or you can use the gauge to mark and cut permanent templates in plywood or MDF, but that may be more effort than you feel like putting in for a one-off.

Cool, that's really helpful. It seems that it would solve the problem of flying blind when (gulp) removing chunks of wood from your neck.

Do you have any personal experience with this? Sanding or scraping? Degree of difficulty?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Scrapers are an odd tool.  They do shave off wood in paper thin bits, like the stuff you put in a hamster or guinea pig pen.  They can be a pain to dress.  They require the proper edge to work.  Sand paper works just as easily, but use a block or you'll make a wave.  A sanding sponge might work best.  I dunno, I tend to stick to the '59 profile these days.
Patrick

 

[Stratmeup]

Scrapers are an odd tool.  They do shave off wood in paper thin bits, like the stuff you put in a hamster or guinea pig pen.  They can be a pain to dress.  They require the proper edge to work.  Sand paper works just as easily, but use a block or you'll make a wave.  A sanding sponge might work best.  I dunno, I tend to stick to the '59 profile these days.
Patrick

I wonder if a mechanical hand sander would work? I bought a B&D Mouse a while ago for sanding drywall in hard to reach places before repainting a bathroom. They advertise this as a finishing tool for woodworkers, so this might be the best?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/MS800B.aspx


On the other hand, lots of people seem to be fans of the '59 profile. It's a beautiful neck, and I'd hate to screw it up. Maybe just sell the thing and get the SVR or Wolfgang profile, both of which seem in between the '59 and the Standard thin?

 

[Cagey]

never ever SAND down a neck like rosewood,pau ferro or similar. You'll dull the wood.

You mean like this?

 

[Cagey]

I wonder if a mechanical hand sander would work? I bought a B&D Mouse a while ago for sanding drywall in hard to reach places before repainting a bathroom. They advertise this as a finishing tool for woodworkers, so this might be the best?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/MS800B.aspx

On the other hand, lots of people seem to be fans of the '59 profile. It's a beautiful neck, and I'd hate to screw it up. Maybe just sell the thing and get the SVR or Wolfgang profile, both of which seem in between the '59 and the Standard thin?

That hand sander will most likely wreck your neck. It's not designed for that sort of thing.

There's really only about .060" more wood at the thin end, and .100" more at the heel of a .59 Roundback vs. a Standard Thin. I know it feels like a lot more than that - like going from a broom handle to a baseball bat - but getting in between those dimensions is gonna be a lotta work for .030" difference in thickness. That's like the thickness of your A string. Seems like you could get used to that pretty easily, rather than risk a perfectly good neck.

 

[Stratmeup]

That hand sander will most likely wreck your neck. It's not designed for that sort of thing.

Do you think so? I know sometimes things don't exactly work as advertised, but that little Mouse gadget is supposedly designed for finish sanding.

Also should add, you are right, it does feel like a baseball bat. And I want this instrument to be perfect for me, not something I get used to.

 

[Cagey]

I know it's designed for finish sanding, but there are a lot things with finishes on them. You also have to consider surface geometry. That unit is designed for small flat things. It's essentially a small D/A with a funny-shaped heel. Use that on long conical shape like the neck, and you're liable to end up with a wavy contour and/or flat spots here and there.

 

[Stratmeup]

I know it's designed for finish sanding, but there are a lot things with finishes on them. You also have to consider surface geometry. That unit is designed for small flat things. It's essentially a small D/A with a funny-shaped heel. Use that on long conical shape like the neck, and you're liable to end up with a wavy contour and/or flat spots here and there.

Thanks for the advice. This is the description from B&D's website

Versatile design sands tight spaces and curved surfaces
Contour attachments easily sand curved surfaces

Not disputing your valued input, as I said before, I have little experience with wordworking. But this seems to me a less destructive approach than taking a knife edge to a neck, as Orpheo suggested?

Maybe the best way is to find an old broomstick and see if can use the B&D on it before I start grinding away?

 

[greywolf]

I use both an electric sander and hand sanding .  Be gentle , check frequently and finish up with hand sanding and you can be just fine.

 

[Stratmeup]

I use both an electric sander and hand sanding .  Be gentle , check frequently and finish up with hand sanding and you can be just fine.

Thank you, I think I will give it a try.

I am weighing the cost of buying a new neck versus the beating I'll take by selling this brand new neck on Ebay, (for the second time) and it seems it's worthwhile to make the effort to fix this one.

If other people have modified their neck satisfactorily, I should be able to, too.

Question: Should I remove the neck from the guitar, or can this be done without removing the neck?

 

[Cagey]

Actually, for re-profiling a neck I'd use a scraper and/or a spokeshave before I'd use a sander. For as destructive as they sound, they don't have to be and you get more consistent results. You'll still have to sand it, but at least things will be uniform. I will say if you haven't done it before, a neck is probably not the first thing you should try your hand at. You kinda have to to develop a feel for things.

Actually, if you could find an old baseball bat or two nobody wants, they'd make good test subjects. They're made of hardwood and are big around. Get a feel for your tools.

 

[Stratmeup]

Actually, for re-profiling a neck I'd use a scraper and/or a spokeshave before I'd use a sander. For as destructive as they sound, they don't have to be and you get more consistent results. You'll still have to sand it, but at least things will be uniform. I will say if you haven't done it before, a neck is probably not the first thing you should try your hand at. You kinda have to to develop a feel for things.

Actually, if you could find an old baseball bat or two nobody wants, they'd make good test subjects. They're made of hardwood and are big around. Get a feel for your tools.

That's good advice, and I will do just that.

A thought occurred to me as I was pondering whether to take this project on. There's a local cabinet making company whose owner is a guitar player and makes his own guitars from scratch as his hobby. Not sure how the guitars are, but the woodworking skill on other things is impeccable.

I think I'll drive out there tomorrow with my instrument and relay all the good help you folks were able to provide, and see what he has to say.
Cheers,

 

[bbl4ck]

If you don't feel like working the job yourself, Haywire Guitars, which is linked on the main Warmoth page offers this service at this link:

http://www.haywirecustomguitars.com/repairs/NeckShave.html

I can't say for certain, but I would think since they have a relationship close enough with Warmoth to be linked on their page, they are likely familiar with various Warmoth neck profiles.
I have been considering using their services myself.  I have a Clapton profile on my Firebird neck and I never play it just because that shape does not work for me.
If you choose to use them, please post your results...
Good luck &  :rock-on:

 

[Stratmeup]

If you don't feel like working the job yourself, Haywire Guitars, which is linked on the main Warmoth page offers this service at this link:

http://www.haywirecustomguitars.com/repairs/NeckShave.html

I can't say for certain, but I would think since they have a relationship close enough with Warmoth to be linked on their page, they are likely familiar with various Warmoth neck profiles.
I have been considering using their services myself.  I have a Clapton profile on my Firebird neck and I never play it just because that shape does not work for me.
If you choose to use them, please post your results...
Good luck &  :rock-on:

OK, best idea so far. I like to play the things, I don't much like to carve them with pointy objects or attack them with power tools.

I will certainly let you know when this is finished, and thank you for the heads up on this.