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Need a new PC, one ideal for recording

Amen, Cagey. I agree that there's no real purpose to be online with the machine I use for recording. I typically disable the internet connection unless I need to download a program or OS upgrade. I've got a laptop for all the regular Internet stupidities.
 
reluctant-builder said:
Amen, Cagey. I agree that there's no real purpose to be online with the machine I use for recording. I typically disable the internet connection unless I need to download a program or OS upgrade. I've got a laptop for all the regular Internet stupidities.

Agree on using a separate machine for a your other internet usage. Also make sure you have a good back process, one that will allow you to mirror the whole system to an external drive, and then restore it back to a previous stable point if needed.
 
Cagey, your wrong again. Theres many ways to back up your recordings as you go that are not gonna be compromized by internet malware or whatever.

Secondly, if you know how to keep your online activities low profile, and use something as simple as microsoft security essentials (free) and just dont hap hazardly download and visit questionable sites, you can operate for ever without a problem, I am proof, I NEVER have a problem with viruses or malware, This computer that I am typing on runs my CNC machine, I've got many hours invested in programming and G-Code that if lost would break my heart, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

But, I understand what you are saying, I really do, If you can afford to have several comps, dedicate one to recording. I have 4 comps. But you CAN have one do it all comp, thats all
 
tfarny said:
Yeah, chuck it - keep the case and power supply if it's ATX compatible. Get 8 gigs memory, Sandy Bridge based Intel processor (I paid $80 for mine and I can see NO difference between it and my core i5 non-sandy bridge at work), and motherboard with USB 3.0. I think the 3.0 is critical because the next gen of recording IO will most definitely make use of that bandwidth. If you don't play games, don't spend more than $50 on a video card - but offloading video processing onto a card of any type will speed up performance on your mission critical apps.

If you just upgrade the circuit board parts, you can get away with sub-$400 and it will never hiccup during recording. and 64 bit Win7 is an absolute must.

What I just built:

Core 2 Sandy Bridge pentium
8g ddr3 memory
$75 Radeon card on a rebate
dual 500gb hard disks, offloaded swap file to the second (file storage) disk. Shoulda just got an SSD, but there's always next year.
onboard sound - the toneport is a sound card when you are recording, no need for anything else.
mobo with 6gb SATA and USB 3, not a lot of other special stuff
Wireless N card ($15).

Those Pentiums are Sandy Bridge/Socket 1155 but not at all in the class of the rest of the lineup at all. I wouldn't expect them to compare favorably with a last gen i5-750 much less anything like the 2500k or so. Did a tutorial build for a 2500k based system in April, running 2x 23" 1920x1080 displays off the integrated HD 3000, works just fine for PT and Reaper. If gaming isn't in the equation and you don't need to push displays beyond that I don't see a real need for a discrete card at all if the CPU itself is solid. Plus now if you want to sacrifice some CPU muscle for better IGP there are the AMD Llano chips out too.

IMO if you're building a DAW, build a DAW. At very least (if you don't have a laptop/netbook/tablet for casual internet use) set up a partition and run a free Linux distro on it to grab email and websurf. Some people don't even put their PC DAWs online or install antiviruses on them. I don't go quite that far but my workstation is locally networked only 99% of the time and has different installs for the DAW and for graphic arts uses, it works out pretty well. If someone is less handy with that sort of thing a single-purpose workstation is a good safe bet. A decent SSD for a primary drive and a few WD Black drives for samples/recording/backups and you're in great shape.

The general class of midrange hardware now is excellent and very affordable, no reason to cut corners at all. 8GB RAM is being given away for $5/GB, there's a good selection of CPUs at $200 and under, even SSDs are coming down now.

Also, backing up should be standard and automatic for serious computer users. It's not like you have to run off a bunch of DVD-Rs every week, plenty of utilities to make that painless and easy.  

 
jay4321 said:
tfarny said:
Yeah, chuck it - keep the case and power supply if it's ATX compatible. Get 8 gigs memory, Sandy Bridge based Intel processor (I paid $80 for mine and I can see NO difference between it and my core i5 non-sandy bridge at work), and motherboard with USB 3.0. I think the 3.0 is critical because the next gen of recording IO will most definitely make use of that bandwidth. If you don't play games, don't spend more than $50 on a video card - but offloading video processing onto a card of any type will speed up performance on your mission critical apps.

If you just upgrade the circuit board parts, you can get away with sub-$400 and it will never hiccup during recording. and 64 bit Win7 is an absolute must.

What I just built:

Core 2 Sandy Bridge pentium
8g ddr3 memory
$75 Radeon card on a rebate
dual 500gb hard disks, offloaded swap file to the second (file storage) disk. Shoulda just got an SSD, but there's always next year.
onboard sound - the toneport is a sound card when you are recording, no need for anything else.
mobo with 6gb SATA and USB 3, not a lot of other special stuff
Wireless N card ($15).


Also, backing up should be standard and automatic for serious computer users. It's not like you have to run off a bunch of DVD-Rs every week, plenty of utilities to make that painless and easy.  

Yes it should be. I am a qualified PC Tech. You would not believe the number of computer i fix (owned by smart educated users) that have no backup process. I always like mentioning it anyway
:icon_biggrin:
 
Cagey said:
Something as important as a DAW shouldn't ever even be on a freakin' network, let alone the internet.

Most software updates and authorisations require internet access.
I agree that a studio computer shouldn't be "Facebooked" with, but nobody is going to break into your computer unless you download something that will let them.  As far as losing recorded material, it is very poor practice to record to the system drive.  I have a seperate 300GB drive inside my studio computer, and an external 500GB firewire drive, so plenty of room, and if I ever got a virus on that computer, ti would attack the system drive ... it probably wouldn't even see the other 2.
For those who are using PC's, it is good practice to have 2 boot hardware profiles ... a "home" profile that allows you to connect to the net (for updates, etc), and maybe allows you to use a printer (sheet music, etc), then another "recording" profile that turns everything not needed by your recording software OFF!  You'll avoid any kind of software hiccups this way.
 
AndyG said:
For those who are using PC's, it is good practice to have 2 boot hardware profiles ... a "home" profile that allows you to connect to the net (for updates, etc), and maybe allows you to use a printer (sheet music, etc), then another "recording" profile that turns everything not needed by your recording software OFF!  You'll avoid any kind of software hiccups this way.

I like this idea.

I do use a drive other than my system drive for storing my recorded works, so that's a practice I'll continue in any new setup.
 
AndyG said:
Most software updates and authorisations require internet access.
I agree that a studio computer shouldn't be "Facebooked" with, but nobody is going to break into your computer unless you download something that will let them.  As far as losing recorded material, it is very poor practice to record to the system drive. 
(emphasis mine)

Except Microsoft is as malicious as any wet-brained script kiddie when it comes to reading/writing to your storage space and/or system/app files.

And I never condoned recording to the system drive; quite the opposite. I said to use a small SSD for the OS/Apps, and some big, fluffy HDDs for data files. The requirement for frequent off-machine backups goes without saying.

The vast majority of system updates are generally security-related, so if you stay off the 'net, you don't need them. Even a Windows 98 machine is safe if it's not connected to anything and nobody can get at it. Helps if you never power it up as well <grin>
 
Cagey said:
AndyG said:
Most software updates and authorisations require internet access.
I agree that a studio computer shouldn't be "Facebooked" with, but nobody is going to break into your computer unless you download something that will let them.  As far as losing recorded material, it is very poor practice to record to the system drive. 
(emphasis mine)

Except Microsoft is as malicious as any wet-brained script kiddie when it comes to reading/writing to your storage space and/or system/app files.

And I never condoned recording to the system drive; quite the opposite. I said to use a small SSD for the OS/Apps, and some big, fluffy HDDs for data files. The requirement for frequent off-machine backups goes without saying.

The vast majority of system updates are generally security-related, so if you stay off the 'net, you don't need them. Even a Windows 98 machine is safe if it's not connected to anything and nobody can get at it. Helps if you never power it up as well <grin>
For what its worth, I've been using the same PC, Windows XP loaded, for the last 6 or so years, and have never had a hiccup with the setup I described earlier.  ProTools (my DAW of choice) has downloadable updates from time to time, and I've purchased plugins online as well.  I know I could transfer them with a USB key, but that's just a PITA ..... :glasses9:
 
AndyG said:
For what its worth, I've been using the same PC, Windows XP loaded, for the last 6 or so years, and have never had a hiccup with the setup I described earlier.  ProTools (my DAW of choice) has downloadable updates from time to time, and I've purchased plugins online as well.  I know I could transfer them with a USB key, but that's just a PITA ..... :glasses9:

There are at least 17 or 18 people in the US who have used Windows machines without incident. You may be bringing the number closer to 20 <grin>

Myself, I look at Windows as a definite-purpose stand-alone machine OS, which is what it was originally designed to be. Trying to use them in other ways is like trying to race stock cars. It can be done by bolting on all sorts of performance parts and adjusting/modifying different things but they're still not really race cars and you're almost certainly going to get hurt or otherwise compromise the machine. Stick to gaming, office productivity, artwork, and things of that nature that you do on your own (read: off the 'net) and you're fine.

I fully intend to set up a recording desk here, and I'll almost certainly be using a Windows-based machine to do that. But, there'll be no CAT5 or wireless NICs near that puppy.
 
First things first. make sure you get the facts from people with experience, and make sure they give them to you unbiased.

There's nothing wrong with using the internet on your DAW machine.  However the gear conflicts may hamper things.  and this is not solely a windows problem.  At my university the recording studio is running a 48 channel SSL Duality into one of the newer Intel Mac Pros.  I think it must be a 1st gen i7 or something.  They had to disable the ethernet hardware on that computer because it caused crashes, timeouts and other conflicts with the core cards used with the SSL setup, and that was in OSX Snow Leopard.  I have the exact same issue on my computer running Windwos 7 pro 64-bit with my MOTU interfaces.  So anytime my OS or DAW will be using the ASIO drivers to interact with my audio interface..  I open my network and sharing center and disable the ethernet adapter.  Then I have no problems.  I also run with no virus software, and except for when i'm recording and editing, my computer is always connected.  I never get viruses, just keep your UAC controls functional.  That's why linux has such a great reputation for stability,  You need to elevate your priviledges in order to do system tasks.  People ignore these warnings in windows and disable them, installing whatever on their systems and that really screws things up.  Also having a separate administrator account that you ONLY use for system set up and program installation is highly recommended.  Have a normal user with no elevated priviledges that you use the majority of the time.

My opinion on hardware mirrors and contradicts some of the advice already given.

I would not suggest buying the biggest baddest feature rich motherboard you can find.  Something that costs 120 - 150 dollars will do you just fine.  You should have no need for a super fancy chipset or something with 2 x16 PCIe slots that both run at full speed unless you plan on using a SLI or Crossfire setup, which has nothing to do with audio.  If you get one of the new sandybridge chips that has onbaord graphics capabilities, that should do you just fine.  Especially if you disable AERO and the other desktop effects in windows and revert to a classic windows theme.  If you plan on using a discrete graphics card, then basically anything you buy will be overkill (although that's not necessarily bad).  Powercolor makes great low budget video cards for as little as 50 dollars that will even allow you to play some directX 11 games.  sure with low quality, but it would be more than enough to run you graphics needs, especially with the possibility of multiple displays.  That and they're small, very easy to install, and have no fan to make extra noise in your studio space (SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT, BELIEVE ME).  I'd suggest going with the 1155 socket,  Its sensible, not necessarily expensive, and gives you future upgrade posibilities.  Go for a brand with built in firewire on the mobo to make hooking up your interfaces easier.  Definitely spring for Windows 7 and install the 64 bit version, and fill your computer up with ram.  I JUST finished upgrading my computer last week to a 2600k i7 processor and 16gb of ram.  The ram cost me 110 dollars.  It is dirt cheap right now.  So load up, but make sure you get fast ram.  pay attention to the clock speeds.  get 1600mhz ram or better if you can.

As per the processor cores are concerned.  Do yourself a favor and get a quad core.  they dont' cost much extra, and most DAW software worth its salt is not designed for X number of cores, it is designed to use whatever cores are available.  Cubase is a good example of this.  you Will see better performance from a quad core over a dual core.  although it may not be apparent until you have 30 tracks with 4 plugins active on half of them.

Alternatively, if you're looking for a better interface.  remember that a middle of the line solution could easily take up 75 percent of your budget, just for the interface.  So if your tascam is doing the job, stick with it for a bit.  Upgrading that part can be expensive.

Which brings me to the soundcard.  Dont get one, it wont help you one bit.  For the most part when using a DAW and a recording interface, your studio monitors will be hooked up directly to the interface, NOT the computer.  you control it directly through your daw and it bypasses the OS (this is the whole point of ASIO).  I do not have a sound card, Instead I have my MOTU 896 hooked up to my studio monitors, and my computer has an integrated sound card with an optical s/pdif output.  So i hooked my optical out into the ADAT in on my motu, set it to s/pdif from adat in the settings. and run my windows audio through my recording interface.  I get wonderful sound quality this way, and there's little to stop you from doing this if you get the right equipment and features.  Since the signal is still digitized when it leaves the computer, it never goes through the cheap onboard DAC's.  it gets sent straight to my interface in digital form where my pro grear actually does the converting.  You do not need a sound card, as you wont be using it in your DAW.

(of course if you get a dedicated recording sound card, like a core card for pro tools or whatever, this is a different scenario.  BUT, in that case the card isn't really a sound card in the traditional sense.  really it is acting as a cardbus interface rather than a firewire bus or USB interface.

Everyone else has given great advice on hard drives and the like and I have little to add.

You should be able to get a very decent computer for your purposes with much room to spare in your budget.  Its the dedicated audio gear that will cost the money.

Save up and get yourself a matched pair of AKG C414s with all the polar patterns and then you'll have a good set of mics to do anything with.
Also there's nothing wrong with using an sm58 on guitar recordings,  Personally I use a 60 dollar mic to record my guitar tracks, and its the best i've tried. (equation audio DS-V7)


Thats my 25 cents, id' have more to say but i'm tired and I haven't even proof read my post yet so I'll end there and post any addendums later
:icon_thumright:
 
Wow! Thanks for that post; very informative. I'll probably have to look up a few things (computer vernacular is not my forte), but I appreciate how in depth you went with your explanations.  :icon_biggrin:

Once I parse all the info you provided, and everyone else's suggestions, too, and distill it down to what I need ... I think I'll be in good shape to get the right components for the job.

Thanks again, everybody.
 
In our rehearsal recording rig we are using my old Pentium 3Ghz (not dual core) machine with 1GB RAM (Win XP). But, since it is a dedicated recording machine I stripped all antivirus, etc. from it (it is not connected to internet/email). We have a separate drive for the audio files (500 GB). We use a Tascam USB interface, it records 14 tracks simultaneously and costs $299. We've been regularly recording 14 simultaneous tracks on this setup for many months now. We had one crash when we let it record non stop for over an hour but other than that pretty much flawless.  Some example live recordings with that rig at my wordpress site:
http://johnviehweg.com/wordpress/?p=60
http://johnviehweg.com/wordpress/?p=88
 
Good stuff! Those clips sound great. A big part of the quality is obviously what's producing your sound, before it gets to the computer, but it's cool that your computer is able to mostly do what you ask of it.
 
Something that's worked great for me is Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/), which is open source and super low overhead, system-wise.  I use it in conjunction with a Line 6 UX1 interface, which came with Pod Farm.  Drum-wise I've been using freeware as well, a program called Hotstepper (http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/hotstepper.shtml).  I built this PC as an internet and occasional gaming machine (I had a World of Warcraft phase), and get demos I'm happy with (or as close to happy as someone who's never happy gets).  I've primarily just being creating demos for now, but with a better drum sequencer and samples I could churn out some fairly compelling stuff.  Audacity is a little quirky in terms of lining up your tracks after recording them, but there's basically zero latency and great sound.  I would likely get into something with more traditional EQ for final mixing and mastering, though.
 
Corey P. said:
Something that's worked great for me is Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/), which is open source and super low overhead, system-wise.  I use it in conjunction with a Line 6 UX1 interface, which came with Pod Farm.  Drum-wise I've been using freeware as well, a program called Hotstepper (http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/hotstepper.shtml).  I built this PC as an internet and occasional gaming machine (I had a World of Warcraft phase), and get demos I'm happy with (or as close to happy as someone who's never happy gets).  I've primarily just being creating demos for now, but with a better drum sequencer and samples I could churn out some fairly compelling stuff.  Audacity is a little quirky in terms of lining up your tracks after recording them, but there's basically zero latency and great sound.  I would likely get into something with more traditional EQ for final mixing and mastering, though.

Cool. Thanks for the ideas.

Luckily, I can just play my drums when I want drums on my tracks and don't have to rely on software. I realize that's not an option for everybody. :icon_biggrin:

Though, I've found that fake drums are incredibly handy for "jotting down" ideas I have for rhythm figures when I can't go banging on the tubs (like late at night). I need a country house!
 
Starts with a warmoth, then you need a studio with full gear, now it's a house in Woodstock! The GAS is strong in you, young reluctantbuilder....
 
tfarny said:
Starts with a warmoth, then you need a studio with full gear, now it's a house in Woodstock! The GAS is strong in you, young reluctantbuilder....

What's life without aspiration? :icon_biggrin:
 
Open source software is a very large, and mostly untapped repository of wonderfulness.  Audacity is a great program, I always have it installed on my computers because it comes in handy, but its not really a DAW software replacement.  It has destructive editing, which isn't very helpful when you're mixing a really big session.

This is actually something I was going to touch on.  If you're brave enough to install and start using Linux, you've got a pretty powerful DAW program that is free.  The only issue is getting whatever interface you are using to gel with Linux.  Food for thought, Because Linux's open source DAW software is a fantastic program. and its free!

http://ardour.org/
 
Johnfv said:
In our rehearsal recording rig we are using my old Pentium 3Ghz (not dual core) machine with 1GB RAM (Win XP). But, since it is a dedicated recording machine I stripped all antivirus, etc. from it (it is not connected to internet/email). We have a separate drive for the audio files (500 GB). We use a Tascam USB interface, it records 14 tracks simultaneously and costs $299. We've been regularly recording 14 simultaneous tracks on this setup for many months now. We had one crash when we let it record non stop for over an hour but other than that pretty much flawless.  Some example live recordings with that rig at my wordpress site:
http://johnviehweg.com/wordpress/?p=60
http://johnviehweg.com/wordpress/?p=88

Wow. Any drummer who dares to take on Heart of the Sunrise deserves great respect!
Really nice sounding recordings by the way :)
 
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