Need a new PC, one ideal for recording

[reluctant-builder]

I am not a Mac guy. I have no desire to be one. I've used them; they don't thrill me. I'm looking only for suggestions about PC permutations that are ideal for recording music.

Dual-core? Quad-core? How much memory? How big of a hard-drive? Any sound-card recommendations? Are monitor speakers an absolute must, or does headphone mixing suffice?

I've got a PC that does its job admirably but, though it soldiers on, it is way, way past its last legs. Ableton overtaxes the thing like mad. I have to turn off some setting to do with how I hear the input, due to latency that my computer simply doesn't have the resources to combat. I can adequately record with what I have now, but it's so far from ideal and it tries my patience.

I've got a Tascam four track that does a pretty reasonable job as a mixing board, but I need to invest in some quality microphones. I've got an SM 58 that I use for vocals, however I recognize that I need to get quality microphones for mic-ing my amp, if I ever hope to get a guitar sound that doesn't sound processed all to hell.

Money isn't really an object, but I'd prefer not to spend more than $1,500. The bulk of that, surely, would be the computer itself ... am I crazy to think I could pick up two mics and monitor speakers, too, with that figure?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bagman67]

I think the question you should ask yourself is this:  What software do you plan to build your recording regime around?  Once you can answer that, you can then make decisions about the machine that will best support it.  Machines that have a lot of fancy crap the software is not optimized to take advantage of may be money ill spent.  But as you've no doubt noticed, PC horsepower is cheap, so do what everyone else does who wants more performance, quick-like:  Get  a lot of memory, a ballsy processor (keyed to what your software can exploit), and, possibly, a high-speed hard drive (10k RPM or better will make disc reads/writes lag less).  Recent tests of solid-state drives indicate significant speed improvements for small read/write operations; frequent larger r/w operations are actually slower than a platter drive.

IGB

 

[reluctant-builder]

I think the question you should ask yourself is this:  What software do you plan to build your recording regime around?

Well, I've been using Ableton Live to this point, and I rather like it, so I'd intend to build around that application.

 

[bagman67]

I'm a total noob at recording, so I'd check the Ableton website for system requirements (and preferred), and I'm sure they have forums like this one where, once you figure out who the real knowledgeable dudes are, you can learn something valuable you can in turn share with us.

 

[Cagey]

Dual-core? Quad-core? How much memory? How big of a hard-drive? Any sound-card recommendations? Are monitor speakers an absolute must, or does headphone mixing suffice?

I've got a Tascam four track that does a pretty reasonable job as a mixing board, but I need to invest in some quality microphones. I've got an SM 58 that I use for vocals, however I recognize that I need to get quality microphones for mic-ing my amp, if I ever hope to get a guitar sound that doesn't sound processed all to hell.

Money isn't really an object, but I'd prefer not to spend more than $1,500. The bulk of that, surely, would be the computer itself ... am I crazy to think I could pick up two mics and monitor speakers, too, with that figure?

You wanna build something, or do you want to buy something already built? It's better if you assemble your own because you can configure things in a more advantageous way for DAW use, but the cost savings aren't there like they used to be. Computers are just commodities anymore. But, there's no premium involved either, and you're likely to end up with a higher-quality machine.

While numerous central cores sounds like a Good Thing, there isn't really a whole lot of software out there that can take advantage of them. Most problems are linear, and so can't take advantage of parallelism. You'll find if you build a quad core that 2 of the processors spend the bulk of their time doing little or nothing at all.

That's not to say that additional processors don't have their uses, but they'd be different processors. You want audio cards, special effects processors, and graphics cards each with their own DSPs/GPUs. Your central processors should just have gobs of memory available over a very fast bus for shuffling things around and running the main application (such as Cubase, Reason, Logic, etc.), as well as the overweight albatross that is Windows. Those two things will eat your main two CPUs.

Also, use 64 bit so you can address gobs of memory, and buy gobs of memory. The less you have to shuffle on/off the disk, the better off you are. Also, it's worth it to use a SSD for your OS and apps, and regular HDDs for storage. 64GB of SSD is plenty, and a TB or two of HDD space is dirt cheap anymore.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I would make sure to have USB 3 or sometimes called ss USB on it as well.  You will most likely want two drives.  As you increase the number of tracks, the size of info moving is larger and larger.  It is difficult for the operating system to do what it need to do with read write operations and the recording.  An external drive as a second drive allows you to easily move the session to another computer at any point.  For the money listed, I would build a powerful computer with the software needed.  Obviously a couple of mics are required and I would get a decent mic first, you can't go wrong with that path.  Then get a good set of monitors.  Not necessarily expensive, but flat response.  Take the other cash, and build some bass traps for the room you want to use.  The monitors and the traps will make the post section of the process much easier.  Regular rooms without treatment have up to 25 dB's of variations due to standing waves in the rooms.  This makes mixing a bear.

After that, the converters you use come into play.  By this point, I doubt that you will have any of the 1500 left.  Unfortunately, the hardware to get the sound to the computers drive can make a vast difference.  You have to assess how many tracks and at what level of quality you want to go.  I am currently getting ready to unload some of my old equipment, and I wouldn't sell it to you because it would be cruel and nefarious of me to do that.  That being said, it did what I needed it to, and now I know better and can get a unit that will satisfy my needs.  If I was going to do it again, I'd get a Profire 2626 because you can later have it modded to a much nicer unit that competes with much more expensive products.

So I guess to sum up, Badass computer, as directed above, extra hard drives, Mic, monitors, basstraps, converter.  If I went overboard, sorry.  I have played a bunch with this stuff and have found that if you have a decent set of mics, and a room for the stuff to work properly in, the whole process is just so much nicer.  Of course, you need the computer first.
Patrick

 

[Alfang]

I actually agree with cagey, build one, as far as how much power how many cores and so on, the more the better, as cagey said, many programs wont take advantage of multiple cores, but don't worry, windows will, just because a program may not use all the processor power, doesn't mean that another program running at the same time won't use another core, as computers go, you can't be too fast or too powerfull.

Build your own, buy the best motherboard and processor you can afford, buy a good video card, and by good I am talking the $400 dollar range, and at least one fast hard drive for the operating system is good too, Memery is pretty cheap, go with 8 gigs,or as much as the motherboard will support, and do some homework, buy fast Ram. most motherboards have pretty good onboard sound for playen MP3's and whatnot, but if your recording, I guess youl be adding a special card for that, which I know nothing about.

When its all said and done, you got an awesome comp that will last 5 years ( be very high performance), and do everything you want it to do.

Just a ballpark idea pricewise, probably 800-1200 will do what you want,    check out newegg.com

If your wondering why such a good video card when your main concern is audio,  the biggest bottleneck that slows down computers is the video, you get a great video card everything else just breathes easily

 

[Cagey]

There is no way on this Earth he needs a $400 video card. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The graphics processing demands of DAW software are nothing, and even the cheapest video card has its own GPU. In fact, most mobo's onboard video processing would probably be more than sufficient, which drops the video card cost down to $0. You spend $400 when you want to play Crysis at 50fps, not for screens that are 98% static and do very little animation. Look at the Axe FX. The best audio processor extant, and it has video capabilities that make a cell phone display look like super-advanced alien technology.

More than 2 processors are only good if you're going to run multiple large individual programs. While that possibility exists, most DAW programs are monolithic be-all end-all solutions, so the whole shebang tries to run on a single processor. Add a processor to run the pig that is Windows, and you're up to needing 2 cores. They should be fast, but that's the right count. Of course, if you don't have (or have very little) processing power on the audio card, the CPU has to handle it, and the more "effects" you run the worse performance will be. Time-based effects are the worst.

Gobs of memory and a fast front-side bus are key. You need to be able to move data around RFN. Get that, and all will be well.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

While I agree that the DAW's do not take advantage of the multi core processors, the plugin producers have been revamping things to exploit them.  Not nearly as much to rewrite, and there are large performance gains to be had.  That point is null and void if you don't use plugins, but these days it seems to be second nature.
Patrick

 

[tfarny]

1500 is way, way overkill for a recording computer. I JUST built a new pc, I think it cost me $450 for hardware (recycled windows off a dead computer). It's got a 3ghz dual core (quad is over rated currently), 8 gigs memory, 1 gig graphics card, etc. I have been using a line6 toneport for my DI and cakewalk for my software, not that it matters much. Any new computer should handle multitrack recording with ease - with your current one, if you could clean it up and max out the memory, maybe go to a SSD drive, wipe the slate clean on windows and fresh install, you are probably good and will spend maybe $200 at most.

 

[ORCRiST]

Well IT/IS is what I do professionally - and I build custom gaming rigs for peeps on the side - I'm a bachelor that when not playing guitars plays LOTS of games.  :icon_thumright:

I just upgraded my primary gaming rig for a song... granted, I just upgraded a few key components as the existing hardware is still well
within my personal standards. But I digress.

Using a 'back-to-school' promotion at NewEgg, I picked up a new Gigabyte mainboard w/ USB3, an AMD 1100T 6-core CPU, 8 gigs of Corsair memory, and
a 120GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD for $550.

I know shitee about recording, but I know it doesn't come close to stressing a PC next to a modern FPS with all the settings maxed.

:rock-on:

 

[reluctant-builder]

It occurred to me, instead of vaguely lamenting my current computer, I should share its specs. I'm getting the sense, from looking around, that it may not be too terribly bad aside from that I have a dearth of RAM. Like, a quite sad amount thereof.

Main music program: Ableton
Computer, OS: PC, Windows XP Pro (SP3)
CPU: Intel Pentium 4, 2.80 GHz (running at 2.79 GHz)
RAM: 1.5 GB
Mixing board: Tascam Digital Portastation 564 (4-track)
MIDI controller: M-Audio Axiom 24
Microphone(s): Shure SM 58
Amp: VOX VT30

 

[ORCRiST]

It occurred to me, instead of vaguely lamenting my current computer, I should share its specs. I'm getting the sense, from looking around, that it may not be too terribly bad aside from that I have a dearth of RAM. Like, a quite sad amount thereof.

Main music program: Ableton
Computer, OS: PC, Windows XP Pro (SP3)
CPU: Intel Pentium 4, 2.80 GHz (running at 2.79 GHz)
RAM: 1.5 GB
Mixing board: Tascam Digital Portastation 564 (4-track)
MIDI controller: M-Audio Axiom 24
Microphone(s): Shure SM 58
Amp: VOX VT30

Oh yeah, throw that thing out... thats like, ancient. Just keep all your audio cards and gear and install them in the new one.

:icon_thumright:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The recording software presents several problems for computers.  Generally bandwidth is your issue.  Each track in a song is larger than the corresponding entire track on a CD.  So it tends to be a crapload of data moving.  When you add plugins on top of that, then they have to process all of that data in the track while moving it and doing the processing.  I know that games stress computers quite a bit, but if you get 16 tracks going, and have 4 plugins per track for EQ, Compression, Reverb, and Mic-Pre modeling, it does get rather intensive on the processor.  So your bus speed, memory, hard drives, and processor are all being taxed.  Add onto that that you have products from several manufactures that don't necessarily fit seamlessly together and the DAW can start to chunk out on you.

That being said, the tips offered do make a lot of sense.  At work we do science nerdy research.  We get computers minus the operating systems from eBay.  Very cheap.  With our University discounts on the operating system, it is a very simple way to get a system cheap.  They are not for this type of application, but it is another option to look into.
Patrick

 

[ORCRiST]

The recording software presents several problems for computers.  Generally bandwidth is your issue.  Each track in a song is larger than the corresponding entire track on a CD.  So it tends to be a crapload of data moving.  When you add plugins on top of that, then they have to process all of that data in the track while moving it and doing the processing.  I know that games stress computers quite a bit, but if you get 16 tracks going, and have 4 plugins per track for EQ, Compression, Reverb, and Mic-Pre modeling, it does get rather intensive on the processor.  So your bus speed, memory, hard drives, and processor are all being taxed.  Add onto that that you have products from several manufactures that don't necessarily fit seamlessly together and the DAW can start to chunk out on you.

That being said, the tips offered do make a lot of sense.  At work we do science nerdy research.  We get computers minus the operating systems from eBay.  Very cheap.  With our University discounts on the operating system, it is a very simple way to get a system cheap.  They are not for this type of application, but it is another option to look into.
Patrick

I'll give you that, but audio - I don't care how much you're doing at once - pales in comparison to the bus saturation and bandwidth that working with and rendering any of kind video does. With games and video editing, the sheer amount of
bandwidth textures and frame buffers need, the compression of video (far more data saturation than any audio) create (and I won't even touch on the real-time physics processing that goes on simultaneously for every rendered object
in the instance of games) all blows audio processing requirements out of the water.

But this is all just 'blah, blah, blah' technical nit-picking... either way, you'll want a above-average system to do whatever it is you want to do. Thing is, any present day off-the-shelf hardware
will suffice. The only caveat I would mention is the storage medium, that'll be the biggest bottleneck with whatever you want to do. So. High RPM drives in a RAID or an SSD is whats recommended here.

 

[tfarny]

Yeah, chuck it - keep the case and power supply if it's ATX compatible. Get 8 gigs memory, Sandy Bridge based Intel processor (I paid $80 for mine and I can see NO difference between it and my core i5 non-sandy bridge at work), and motherboard with USB 3.0. I think the 3.0 is critical because the next gen of recording IO will most definitely make use of that bandwidth. If you don't play games, don't spend more than $50 on a video card - but offloading video processing onto a card of any type will speed up performance on your mission critical apps.

If you just upgrade the circuit board parts, you can get away with sub-$400 and it will never hiccup during recording. and 64 bit Win7 is an absolute must.

What I just built:

Core 2 Sandy Bridge pentium
8g ddr3 memory
$75 Radeon card on a rebate
dual 500gb hard disks, offloaded swap file to the second (file storage) disk. Shoulda just got an SSD, but there's always next year.
onboard sound - the toneport is a sound card when you are recording, no need for anything else.
mobo with 6gb SATA and USB 3, not a lot of other special stuff
Wireless N card ($15).

 

[Patrick from Davis]

If you are getting the USB3, also get firewire on the motherboard.  It will be the previous generation, but it is still very capable.  It will allow you to use older I/O units that will be much cheaper in the near future, but the units will still be fine for most things.
Patrick

 

[Alfang]

OK, so you don't need a fancy video card if all your gonna do is record, but why limit your computer to just that, I stand by my statement of buying a fast video card, ok so it doesnt need to cost $400, but don't go too cheap.  when your not recording you may wanna watch youtube videos or something, get a good video card if you plan to really use your new PC

 

[reluctant-builder]

I'm not a big consumer of most media. I canceled my cable three years ago and haven't missed it one bit. I just canceled Netflix because they pissed me off, and I didn't use it enough to justify it, even before they split it in two and raised the rates.

I'd rather play my drums and my guitars than sit on my butt in front of the television or, god forbid, my computer (unless I'm recording). I work at a computer, so being at one once I get home is not my first choice. If I need info, or I'm recording, or watching online lessons, or would like to chime in and see what you nice folks have had to say, I'll spend a little evening time on the 'net, but I prefer to be disconnected.

If I want to watch football, I've got a digital antenna. If I want to watch what is football to the rest of the world, I do that at the bar. I can watch most Red Wings games online, and the streams are so poor as to not require better video rendering because what I'd be rendering would still be low quality.

So, all that said, going to the nines with a video card isn't a must. I'll be sure not to get something too shatitty -- so I can watch the occasional movie -- but I don't game. Video games have surpassed me. A younger friend of mine tried to get me to play Halo and all I did was get shot.

Still, you all have given me great suggestions so far and I appreciate them, immensely. I especially like the advice of buying the essential parts I need since I've already got a tower. I'll need to look into the viability of that option.

 

[Cagey]

OK, so you don't need a fancy video card if all your gonna do is record, but why limit your computer to just that, I stand by my statement of buying a fast video card, ok so it doesnt need to cost $400, but don't go too cheap.  when your not recording you may wanna watch youtube videos or something, get a good video card if you plan to really use your new PC

It's very poor practice to use your DAW as a general-purpose computer, especially if you're running Windows. You have too much time invested in its setup and what may be on it, and Windows is the most insecure, fragile, and unreliable OS extant. Internet machines, office productivity machines, gaming machines - kill any one or more of those and who cares? You can be back up fairly fast. But lose all your recorded works to a bug or some malware? That's a Tragedy with a capital T because you may not be able to recover from it. Even guys who know better don't back up as often as they should. Something as important as a DAW shouldn't ever even be on a freakin' network, let alone the internet. You gotta treat it like a pacemaker - it's got one job, and your life depends on it. If you need to play games, write letters or jack off on Facebook, get a $300 general-purpose machine from Best Buy. They're perfect for that sort of thing.