Necks - Looking for a tiltback with zero lateral dispersion

[rauchman]

Greetings,

Putting together ideas for the next guitar build.

I really like the idea of tiltback neck, but would want a trem.  I have no experience with this, but would assume a TUSQ XL nut would be pretty decent at keeping the guitar in tune, if there the strings weren't spreading out laterally from the nut (like a Les Paul headstock).

I know the Tiltback Strat goes straight to the tuners with zero lateral dispersion.  Do the Warmoth and/or Vortex offer tiltback with no lateral dispersion to the tuner?

Conversely, can Tiltback Strat neck ordered with something like a CBS headstock?

The reason for all of this, is to get a 24.75" neck (which only comes as a Modern construction) without that stupid side truss rod adjuster so I can modify the heel into something waaaaaaaaay more comfy.

 

[Cagey]

I just measured a little while back for someone else on the Vortex headstock, and while not perfect, it's about as straight a run to the tuners as a 3x3 tiltback gets.

You don't really need the tiltback, though. It's kinda one of those carryovers to electrics from old acoustic designs and ancient days when they really did need it for sonic/mechanical reasons.

Incidentally, the "Modern" design neck Warmoth offers is a Good Thing. Those things are as stable as the rock of Gibralter. Set it and forget it.

This is the headstock from the L5S in my sig...

 

[rauchman]

Very much appreciated.

Yup, fully agree that a Tiltback is not needed, ...if not using Warmoth.  However, I like Warmoth, and this is the only way to get a 24.75" scale without that stupid side adjust for the truss rod.  I made a Warmoth Tele last summer where I hacked the heel to copy the heel of a Fender Elite, and used a Vintage / Modern construction for the neck.  For me, this is light years better than the standard Strat / Tele heel.  Now having this modded heel, going back to a standard heel feels like I'm purposely hindering myself.

I can't mod the heel with the stupid side adjust, and going forward, a standard Strat / Tele style neck heel is not acceptable to me with the modern heel options out there now that are soooooooooooooooo much more comfortable.  I played a Charvel DK24 the other day at Guitar Center and wow, possibly the best designed heed on modern guitars.  Do you have other recommendations that can get me what I'm looking for?

 

[Cagey]

Not from Warmoth. They have the "contoured heel" option on the bodies, which gives you some relief. Same necks, though.

 

[Rick]

So the contoured heel's not good enough?  Because I spend most of my time up in the money frets, and when getting into chuck berry territory never get past fret 20, I'm good.  The good thing with the modern necks, for me, is that I adjust it once, play for six months, adjust once more, and then as long as the sting gauge remains the same, never again.

 

[rauchman]

Not from Warmoth. They have the "contoured heel" option on the bodies, which gives you some relief. Same necks, though.

Thanks again for the help.  How is the tuning stability of the guitar you showed the pic for, when using the trem?

 

[rauchman]

So the contoured heel's not good enough? Because I spend most of my time up in the money frets, and when getting into chuck berry territory never get past fret 20, I'm good.

Nope.  Below is a pic of the heel that I cut for the Tele I put together last summer.  This body started with the contoured heel (which admittedly is better than stock).  However, with the heel pictured, it is considerably better.  The heel on modern DK24 Charvel's and Ibanez AZ series is waaaaaay better still.

 

[Cagey]

Thanks again for the help.  How is the tuning stability of the guitar you showed the pic for, when using the trem?

It's quite good, but not perfect since it's a Bigsby. If you were to use a more modern design vibrato bridge (2 point knife edge fulcrum), I can't imagine you'd have any trouble. I don't have locking nuts on any of my guitars, while they almost all have vibratos. Between locking tuners and a well-cut nut I can do what I want.

 

[rauchman]

Thanks again for the help.  How is the tuning stability of the guitar you showed the pic for, when using the trem?

It's quite good, but not perfect since it's a Bigsby. If you were to use a more modern design vibrato bridge (2 point knife edge fulcrum), I can't imagine you'd have any trouble. I don't have locking nuts on any of my guitars, while they almost all have vibratos. Between locking tuners and a well-cut nut I can do what I want.

Excellent!  Thanks!

 

[Logrinn]

I don’t find that it’s the heel per se that hinders high frets access as much as the upper cutaway not being deep enough. Or as on the Tele, nonexistent.
The access to high frets on a Coronet or SG is excellent and has nothing to do with the heel

 

[rauchman]

I don’t find that it’s the heel per se that hinders high frets access as much as the upper cutaway not being deep enough. Or as on the Tele, nonexistent.
The access to high frets on a Coronet or SG is excellent and has nothing to do with the heel

Totally agree with what you say.

The issue with heel for me isn't so much about access (although it helps), but that damn corner that digs into my palm and just being more ergonomic.

 

[TBurst Std]

Somewhere I posted my measurements and finds on this very topic. I compared the W headstock, the Vortex, a PRS and exact zero.
None were exact zero. The PRS was closest with the Vortex only minutely behind.  The W headstock was a bigger difference from the Vortex than the Vortex was from the PRS

As I recall, PRS was 99.7% there, Vortex was 98.4%, the W 93.5%
All quite close. 

End was, it wasn’t worth my time, effort and cost to stray from the Vortex to create my own shape on a tilt back with the same objectives as yours.

(A consideration was the tuners I had selected. They could not be physically spaced close enough to experience zero lateral dispersion. That required staggering them, more so than the W, and required a truly custom headstock)

 

[rauchman]

Somewhere I posted my measurements and finds on this very topic. I compared the W headstock, the Vortex, a PRS and exact zero.
None were exact zero. The PRS was closest with the Vortex only minutely behind.  The W headstock was a bigger difference from the Vortex than the Vortex was from the PRS

As I recall, PRS was 99.7% there, Vortex was 98.4%, the W 93.5%
All quite close. 

End was, it wasn’t worth my time, effort and cost to stray from the Vortex to create my own shape on a tilt back with the same objectives as yours.

(A consideration was the tuners I had selected. They could not be physically spaced close enough to experience zero lateral dispersion. That required staggering them, more so than the W, and required a truly custom headstock)

Excellent info!  Very much appreciated!