Neck inserts

[CrackedPepper]

I'm especially concerned about this because I have to drill my own holes in my Soulmate neck.  Whether or not I use inserts, it seems to me that the holes go in perpendicular and the 3 degree angle takes care of itself so to speak.  Prior to reading this, my approach to drilling was going to go like this:

1.  After placing the neck in the pocket, I was going to use old E and e strings to ensure proper alignment.
2.  Clamp neck in place.
3.  Take a brad point drill bit that fits perfectly in the mounting hole(s) of my VIP to mark the heel indicating where to drill.
4.  Use my drill press, the drill perfectly perpendicular holes in the heel.

Now, if I have to drill 3 degree holes in the heel as well, I am in trouble.  It seems to me, however, that the heel cavity in the body takes care of the 3 degrees.  Hence my statement about the predrilled holes when you order from Warmoth.  

Can anyone clarify this?

 

[Watershed]

I'm especially concerned about this because I have to drill my own holes in my Soulmate neck.  Whether or not I use inserts, it seems to me that the holes go in perpendicular and the 3 degree angle takes care of itself so to speak.  Prior to reading this, my approach to drilling was going to go like this:

1.  After placing the neck in the pocket, I was going to use old E and e strings to ensure proper alignment.
2.  Clamp neck in place.
3.  Take a brad point drill bit that fits perfectly in the mounting hole(s) of my VIP to mark to heel indicating where to drill.
4.  Use my drill press, the drill perfectly perpendicular holes in the heel.

Now, if I have to drill 3 degree holes in the heel as well, I am in trouble.  It seems to me, however, that the heel cavity in the body takes care of the 3 degrees.  Hence my statement about the predrilled holes when you order from Warmoth.  

Can anyone clarify this?

I see what you are saying, but take a look at the picture again (the third picture down).
http://www.watershedguitars.com/baritone.html

I put a drill bit through the hole in the heel to better visualize.
The body in the picture does NOT have the contoured heel.

The hole through the heel is perpendicular with the back of the body.
The neck pocket is 3 degrees.  The heel cavity in the body creates the three degrees.
Now visualize a neck in the pocket, in the picture.  The drill bit would not go into the neck at a 90 degree angle.
It would be 87 degrees or 93 degrees depending.

"then wouldn't there be an option at Warmoth in addition to their standard 4 hole mounting hole option?"
Apparently not.
I think because with wood screws, you have enough room and flex so that 3 degrees is not a problem.
If you have installed the screws yet, you'll notice that they take quite a bit more force to get in then on say a strat with no angle.

It is a PITA, but it is what it is.
A decent drill press should allow you to angle the table 3 degrees.

James

 

[MUYFUE]

ahh HA! I get it  :icon_smile:

 

[CrackedPepper]

Thanks James

 

[Watershed]

No problem, I have put a lot of research into this.
I'm also of the opinion that this is a situation (3 degrees) where using the correct insert will make a huge difference.

If you have read the "broken tuner screw" thread, the lesson learned is that displacing hardwood is difficult.
This is true.

A lot of the inserts you see out there, that are designed for "wood", mean pine, or fur.
Huge threads into hardwood are completely unnecessary and make installation more difficult.
I would use an insert designed for hardwood or even soft metals.

I have found that ones designed to cut their own threads (ie. self tapping) are the best.
McFeely's used to sell inserts for hardwood, but no longer seem to be offering them in 10-24.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Watershed]

I picture is worth a 1,000 words, so I'll just shut up and post these:

 

[wingchun1976]

Give us the insert option!!! And also the countersunk ferrule option instead of having to use a neck plate! Helps to keep the heel thin as possible!!!  arty07:

 

[hannaugh]

+1 Yes, this is an excellent idea.

 

[NovasScootYa]

I wish neck inserts was an option from warmoth.They look really cool and handy.  

Inserts are highly recommended especially with woods like Canary. The self-aligning 8-32 metal inserts with the Allen-head driver are better than the brass type, IMO.  Good Option Suggestion.
The photo below is how I setup to measure and cut screw length and determine insert depth.  A washer placed between the insert and neck pocket gives insert depth and screw length. (The neckplate is used).
Unlike pointed wood screws a blunt machine screw will compress wood so it’s wise to determine how much will protrude beyond the insert, especially for a milled neck pocket.
To install Allen Head inserts cleanly: Use the correct size drill bit for pilot hole. Use a drill press setup, drill pilot holes, with light pressure lower Allen driver into insert, turn drill chuck manually. Stop short of bottoming out and use an Allen wrench to seat insert below surface, do not over tighten. For very hard wood lube insert with wax or soap bar. Practice on a board first; determining insert depth limit is important and a 8-32 tap and die may be needed.

No problemos with either...
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/3603-STS/8-32-Steel-Threaded-Inserts
http://www.woodworkingparts.com/products/8%252d32-DIE-CAST-ZINC-ALLOY-HEXDRIVE-THREAD-INSERTS.html

 

[Cagey]

The brass works well in larger sizes, say from 10-24 and up, but with the smaller sizes most hardwoods are too hard and you end up breaking the inserts up trying to run them in. At least, that's what's happened to me with the style I've been using. There are insert designs that have knurled or barbed retention schemes, but they're a press-in thing and wouldn't be any good for necks. Probably work well for pickguards or control covers, though, since there's no real stress on those parts.

 

[B3Guy]

+1 for inserts,
+1 for ferrules

if you can't do it on Fender products, please at least do it on your 7/8 necks and bodies  :icon_thumright: