My "swiss army knife" guitar build

[muns53]

I'm planning my first guitar build. Ever. I've had many nice guitars, most of which I've enjoyed very much over the course of my life. But I'm the kind of guy who likes quality stuff that's multi-purpose. So, I've been selling off my gear bit by bit to "simplify" my rig quite a bit over the last several months. I'm down to an awesome, versatile H&K tube amp powering 2 ADA 2x12 cabs, a few essential pedals, two sweet acoustic guitars and one electric guitar. I may sell my electric eventually, but not before I build this guitar that I'm envisioning. I've decided that none of the manufacturers build the guitar that I want. The closest I've found is the Parker DF724, but that doesn't quite hit the mark. A luthier friend said that Warmoth stuff is very consistent and high quality, so I've been lurking here for a couple months to try to get educated. I see that some folks here build multiple guitars and work up to a complex build... but I think I'm going for something ambitious right out of the gate.

I am certain I want a guitar that will do electric, acoustic and MIDI. I want something that will give me clean, blues, rock, metal and passable acoustic sounds as well as MIDI/synth controller ability. So, I've already bought the Graph Tech ghost Acousti-Phonic / Hexpander kit and it's on the way to me via an eBay auction (that was a steal, quite frankly). I'm equally certain that I want a guitar that will do passable strat imitations as well as full on rock/metal humbucker sounds. So, I think that means I need an H/S/H pickup configuration. But, man o' man, choosing pickups and body/neck material is a daunting task!

At first, I was set on doing a swamp ash body with maple/rosewood neck. But lately I've been thinking that's too mainstream - a lot of name brand builders are already doing that combo, so what would be unique about that? Also, it seems like that would be better for a killer strat-only imitation build. But I want a swiss army knife guitar! I've owned a Steinberger GM with rock maple body and EMG pickups and Trans Trem - lots to like about that guitar, the ultimate metal rig IMO... but I want more diversity. I've also owned a mahogany late-70's SG with original Gibson pickups - lots to like about that also in the sort of "jazzy" dark, warm rock realm. But the fat, finished neck leaves something to be desired and there was never a lot of sparkle and snap to the guitar, despite lots of cool tones that live inside it.

I have some thoughts about the direction I want to go, and I'm set on choosing quality american-made components as much as possible. So I thought I'd start a thread here and document the process of where I'm starting with ideation and where I end up with the actual build. More later. :rock-on:

 

[AutoBat]

UpDown has several MIDI/piezo axes.

I hope you're leaning towards a raw neck & stainless steel frets.  Locking tuners are also your friend.

It's good for camping trip. It's got toothpick.

 

[line6man]

I hope you're leaning towards a raw neck & stainless steel frets.  Locking tuners are also your friend.

+1.

 

[Updown]

UpDown has several MIDI/piezo axes.

Ummmm ... NO Piezo on my guitars. That's why I got rid of my Gibo DarkFire  :laughing7:
I don't use the Ghost system. No nothing about it either.
swarfrat has the ghost system ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=18629.0

BUT .....
I do use the Roland GK-3 pickup. With the Roland VG-99 and the GR-55
I have installed the internal GK-3 Kit in 2 Warmoth Strats.

The Cigar ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16436.0
              ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16573.0

Redback ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17451.0
            ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17680.0
13pin Install ... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17452.0

Got a Tele Deluxe body here, I'm putting another GK-3 in  :icon_biggrin:
I have mountable GK-3 units too, which can go on any guitar I have.

Don't know if that helps at all  :toothy11:

:dontknow:  ..... What Midi units you got or want to drive ?

 

[AutoBat]

Oops. I thought GK-3 was peizo!

 

[swarfrat]

I have the ghost, but it doesnt work with the Yamaha G-50 i bought. I'm hanging on to it though, until I get my breakout / filter box built.  But based on the piezo audio, I'd say:

Trem and piezo dont play well together without some heavy high pass filtering. You have this large low frequency resonant system coupled to a vibrational transducer.

I still like the idea of piezos for MIDI tracking, but the current state of things (Axon being out of production) sadly means that Roland is pretty much the  only player.  I'm also intruiged by the possibility of recording hex mag, and remicing, since I've never been able to afford  six Marshall half stacks.

 

[muns53]

Guys, thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the links, too, I will definitely be checking them out. I was thinking about these as possible trem/piezo combos (I don't know enough about either system yet to make a decision between them).

Option 1: Graph Tech LB63: http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?SubCategoryID=44 (comes with the piezo saddles built in)
Option 2: Trem King TK-1: http://www.tremking.com/prod2.html (graph tech makes piezo saddle kit for this trem)

For a bright neck, I was thinking about either Padouk or Pau Ferro because the website says they resemble maple in tone without the need for finishing. Maybe with a Rosewood fingerboard so they wouldn't be as snappy as an all-maple neck. For a warm neck, I was thinking Goncolo Alves with a Pau Ferro fingerboard would be a cool and great-looking combo. I have really sweaty hands, so with a gloss finish neck, I have to use some turtle wax spray to keep it slippery. Either way, I want to do stainless frets if I do silver hardware or maybe the gold frets if I do gold hardware.

For body woods, I'm thinking about a chambered Black Korina body. I love the way that stuff looks with a clear or see-through or light burst finish.

 

[muns53]

UpDown has several MIDI/piezo axes.

BUT .....
I do use the Roland GK-3 pickup. With the Roland VG-99 and the GR-55
I have installed the internal GK-3 Kit in 2 Warmoth Strats....
....
Don't know if that helps at all  :toothy11:

:dontknow:  ..... What Midi units you got or want to drive ?

Awesome builds! I love the documentation of your builds. The control layout is daunting which is why I'm thinking of a top route so that I can cut up a pickguard rather than have to make permanent mods to the guitar top. The downside is that it will hide some of the top, but I may start with a strat shaped pickguard and customize it a bit.

I'm not sure what MIDI unit I want to use. I want something that I can layer in to the sound and I love the idea of being able to record some synth chords and acoustic arpeggios on a looper and then jam over using the mag pickups. What do you think of the GR-55 and the VG-99?

 

[muns53]

But based on the piezo audio, I'd say:

Trem and piezo dont play well together without some heavy high pass filtering. You have this large low frequency resonant system coupled to a vibrational transducer.

Can you expand on this a bit? I posted earlier two types of tremolos I'm considering.

 

[muns53]

I really like the warmoth contoured heel, but I would like to shape it even more take off some more material on the back and also take off some of the top horn by the neck for better high-fret access. The one thing I really dislike about playing a traditional strat is the big bulky heel and that metal plate on the back. I envision something along the lines of what Ed Roman does with the Pearlcasters: http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/directcoup.htm

Anyone here done anything like that or can point me to another build here?

 

[swarfrat]

piezos are already prone to picking up bangs and thuds. When you add a tremolo that they pick up sprooings, and warbles - the little floyd warble trick? My wilky damps out very quickly - but if you do that one - either on purpose or accidently, the guitar normal signal gets swamped because the piezos get hit with this massive signal - I'm guessing around 10 - 20 hz or whatever your system resonates at.

If your tremolo isn't floating, you get a massive CLUNK when you release the bar. If it is floating see warble. The whole thing would be a lot better with a steep high pass filter around 60 Hz or so (which is exactly what I have in the works - 18 db/octave @ 50 Hz, in case I ever get the urge to do baritone stuff. The piezo's don't pick up electromagnetic sources though - so you don't really have to worry about 60/120 Hz hum.

But the low frequency signals are QUITE large in relation to the intended guitar signals. Honestly  I'm shocked that the Graphtech Hexpander doesn't do more here. That's where the HPF belongs - by putting it in my breakout box (which will also provide a filtered and buffered 13 pin output in addition to 6 strings + magnetic + volume knob on 1/4 jacks) - I sorta hurt myself if I ever wanted to use it for a piezo bass. I don't think there's huge  chance of that - and I'm willing to live with the consequences - I'm a guitar player, not a bassist - and if I'm tracking MIDI anyway - I can just record on my guitar and transpose wherever.

None of these problems are insurmountable, and piezo CAN offer really clean fast tracking. The Yamaha and the Axons are supposed to track well - the Axons are going for crazy prices even for broken ones. The Yamaha isn't priced so bad, but they don't come up very often - which is why I'm hanging on to mine even though I currently can't use it - and won't be able to until I finish a moderately complex project .  For anyone without software AND hardware engineering skills, or less massochistic hobbies, I'd just stick the GK-3 on it, find you a nice GI-20 on ebay and call it done and just get to making music instead of making stuff to make music.

 

[Updown]

Oops. I thought GK-3 was peizo!

No worries  :icon_thumright:
The GK-3 is Mag Hex
The Ghost and other is Piezo Hex

Think of the GK-3 pickup like a normal pickup, BUT with individual small pickups for each string.
That's a Roland product

The Piezo is in the Saddles .... usually
Some product name ... Fishman Transducers, Graph Tech (Ghost), L.R.Baggs, RMC.

All those can be use into the Roland products.
But I use the GK-3 as it's Roland and my units are all Roland ...... Just makes cense to me.
The GK-3 pickup hasn't changed since it came out, so that part must be the best they can get.
It's the units that are getting better.
I'm hoping for the day they are like a VSTi
Where they remember each setting from each project your working on..... can only hope.

The control layout is daunting which is why I'm thinking of a top route
so that I can cut up a pickguard rather than have to make permanent mods to the guitar top.
The downside is that it will hide some of the top, but I may start with a strat shaped pickguard and customize it a bit.

I'm not sure what MIDI unit I want to use.
I want something that I can layer in to the sound and I love the idea of being able to record some synth chords and acoustic arpeggios on a looper and then jam over using the mag pickups.
What do you think of the GR-55 and the VG-99?

With the GK-3 ...
Depending on how you use the guitar with the units, you can omit some buttons etc from the guitar.
As you can change patches etc with the foot pedal / switches etc.
You can have one switch for the Up / Down buttons or leave them off all together.
I've seen many many different ways that people set there up.

The 3 main bits needed 'at least' are the GK-3 mini toggle switch, the GK-3 Vol pot and the 13pin plug output.
:doh: and the GK-3 pickup.

I use the VG-99 for more guitar efx and doubling up different guitar, 12 string, Tele, etc etc etc
The GR-55 tracks the best out of all the Roland products to date.
All thou the VG-99 is pretty good too.
So I use the GR-55 more now for driving my Virus Ti synth and other NI soft synths etc.
Both units can be combined with the use of the US-20 for a wall of sound from one guitar  arty07:
Great fun.  :icon_biggrin:

I started with a Gibo DarkFire, which could drive the VG-99
But I didn't like the Piezo, so I sold it and built my own  :cool01:

Before I did build those, I bought a cheap, Loaded Roland Ready Fender GK-2 Body.
Stuck a Warmoth Neck on it. 
And had more fun  :guitarplayer2:

For anyone 1st starting out on the GK-3 path or the Roland Guitar Synths.
Think the latest Fender Roland Ready guitar are pretty cheap to buy. Just a thought !!
Or may-be ...... I don't know, getting a mountable GK-3 unit. (can get that with the GR-55 unit)
Can put on any guitar, and take it off with ease !!

Just to see how you like it.

Then go an internal like I have.  :dontknow:

With the top rout, even thou there's the pickguard, there still isn't that much room underneath it.
That's why I've used top routs, so you get that bigger control cavity, to fit everything in.

OH CRAP !!  :doh:
I just remembered, that you can order a Warmoth Strat Body with BOTH top and rear rout.
That's an email add on or phone call + an extra little cost, I presume.
That would save you any other routing 
And have heaps of room for the kitchen sink  :icon_biggrin:

BTW ... here is a very good site for anything along the Guitar Synth realm of things.
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php
About 1/2 way down the main page has different Guitars and pickups. ie: Ghost, RMC etc

Cheers 

 

[swarfrat]

I'm the only person in the world who opted for luddite controls, but the switches aren't strictly necessary. I plan to use mine for recording mostly. I opted for a stacked volume pot for MIDI volume so I can record swells. Currently the second pot is a Piezo volume. The next time my guitar is open (when I get my hum canceling done - first pass at boards are here, parts came in,need to prototype & do second pass to fix some stupid mistakes) - I'm going to make it even simpler from external controls:

3-way
Volume (still doubling as MIDI volume)
Passive Tone on the magnetics
Passive magnetics out the 1/4" jack, battery drives only hum cancel.
13 pin will be exclusively piezo - pin 7 will carry summed piezo instead of the magnetic signal

S1/S2 are really either side of a momentary On-Off-On switch used for patch changes
Mix is a 3 way toggle for mag/mix/hex.

I had fun playing with the piezo mixing at first - it can actually gives some life to an otherwise dull pickup, but in the end, simplicity (at least in the external interface) won out.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have no experience with the piezo or the  guitar synth stuff.  But, for the pickups, talk to Ken at Roadhouse Pickups.  Normally humbuckers do not split all that well.  It is passable, but normally it is never like a single coil.  I believe it is largely due to the differences in the way the magnets are used in the two types of pickups.  I could be wrong, but this seems like the obvious reason.  The reason I suggested Ken is, he can make some incredibly odd stuff that is in the generally accepted form factors.  He made me a T90, or a P90 in the form of a Tele bridge pickup.  He has P80's which are pole magnets like strat pickups in P90 form, and so on.  In general his prices are quite competitive as well, considering you get custom stuff, professionally made, for less than a SD offering.  I got to test his first seven string offerings, and they are monsters.

There are several of us on the board that have pickups from him, a lot of custom doo-hickeys styley pickups, and the reviews are good.  The two things that generally seem to come up for describing them are, depth, and lots of it, and clarity.  It is especially noticeable on the neck pickups.  There is a decided lack of "Pillow Filtered" sound.  Since you are looking for a custom offering, it is always best to talk to the Man himself.  He knows what is possible and what is not better than the rest of us.  It looks like a fun build, kind of reminds me of Adrian Belew's guitar.  Good luck.
Patrick

 

[muns53]

Well, I've got several major components purchased and I've only spent $435.00. I'll post pics eventually.
USA strat body with Cherryburst finish
Trem King tremolo in chrome
Graph Tech Ghost piezo saddles for the Trem King
Graph Tech Acoustiphonic and Hexpander kit and wiring

Now I need a neck, pickups, pickguard, trem cover and misc. hardware.

On the neck, I'm going to go with stainless 6150 frets, LSR roller nut, 10"-16" contour radius & chrome locking tuners. I like the looks of either the standard thin or wolfgang back.

For the neck wood, I'm trying to decide between these combos:
1) Birdseye maple with Rosewood board (either oil or satin finish)
2) Goncolo alves with Pau Ferro or Ebony board (no finish)
3) Padouk with Rosewood board (no finish)
4) Pau Ferro (no finish)
5) Quartersawn Afra (no finish)
6) Canary (no finish)

For the pickguard, I'm trying to decide between whitish pearloid or matching it the fretboard wood.

For pickups, I'm all over the map at this point  :icon_scratch:

 

[muns53]

Okay, well I'm going with a pearloid pickguard for now. And I've decided on Kent Armstrong pickups - three of the single-size humbuckers in the normal strat configuration. Want to set it up with 7-way switching and a coil splitter switch (or push/pull) so that I can get a bunch of sounds. If the bridge pup isn't beefy enough on it's own, I'll pop in another one next to it.

Now I need to get the neck and the other misc hardware on order...

 

[muns53]

I decided to go with one of the Goncalo Alves / Pau Ferro showcase necks. I think the Canary would have been fine, but everything I read said the combo I ordered is more in line with the tone that I'm seeking. Also, I just loved the look. It has the cream dot inlays and I think some MOP inlays would have looked better with the pearloid pickguard, but I'm splitting hairs on that point. It was a lot less expensive than designing from scratch and also I can visualize how it fits together with the parts I have. I went with stainless 6150 frets, LSR nut and Schaller locking tuners. I don't plan to use string trees unless I have to (don't think it's needed with the LSR rollers).

Next step is to modify the neck heel on the guitar and then put it all together when the parts come in. My total budget came in at $1035.00. I'm really happy - my goal was to keep it all under $1K. The most expensive part was the neck, but I know it will be worth it.

 

[muns53]

Trial fit of all the parts:

Neck / headstock decal & hardware:

Pau Ferro fretboard (Warmoth 10"-16" contour):

Goncolo Alves neck (standard thin radius):

 

[JaySwear]

Looks great! Nice grain on that body

 

[muns53]

American strat body; Trem King tremolo; Graphtech ghost piezo saddles:

Ash with cherryburst finish; Trem King routing visible underneath; 13-pin MIDI routing on bottom edge:

Going to modify the stock neckheel & refinish it to match the burst:

Also going to direct mount the neck with bolts & ferrules instead of screws & plate: