My prediction of the next (simple, cheap, useful) breakthrough

[stubhead]

So I'm looking at all the hoopla about neck inserts, to then use machine bolts to attach the neck. And you can't hardly search Google for "threaded inserts" without those pesky "T-nuts" popping up in your search.

And, you can't hardly look at those and realize where they belong -

underneath the fingerboard.

All any neck builder has to do is route four little flat circles on the neck, stick in the T-nuts and glue the fretboard down.... it makes the threaded insert method look both physically weak and laughably complicated by comparison. I mean, I would pay Warmoth $25 extra to put those in, and a package of 8-32 size T-nuts is $6.71 - for one hundred.

 

[bagman67]

I agree, that'd be bad-@ss - and it would require a re-thinking of assembly methods that have been in place since Leo first prototyped a snakehead.  I'm with you on the desirability of this approach - and I ain't holding my breath waiting for it to come through.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The problem with the T nut is that it is rather weak from a materials standpoint.  They are pretty easy to strip.  If I was putting a neck on, and tight, I would worry because of issues I have had with them stripping in the past.  Now threaded inserts, something made of stainless, have never done me wrong.  Brass, that is another story, but stainless have always held up.
Patrick

 

[Jusatele]

Cagey has been tooting those for years

 

[mayfly]

I actually think I remember hearing about someone doing that.

Not so great on single piece maple necks mind you...

 

[Jcurl02]

I'm with Patrick, threaded inserts woudl be better and seems to make more sense.  Has anyone ever done one?  Is there a Patent out there we should apply for???? :hello2:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

If you could buy the neck with the screw holes the proper size for inserts, that would be another very easy fix for the issue.
Patrick

 

[line6man]

The problem with the T nut is that it is rather weak from a materials standpoint.  They are pretty easy to strip.  If I was putting a neck on, and tight, I would worry because of issues I have had with them stripping in the past.  Now threaded inserts, something made of stainless, have never done me wrong.  Brass, that is another story, but stainless have always held up.
Patrick

+1.
You're going to end up stripping the cheap metal, and then your neck will be useless, unless you can enlarge the hole to put in regular threaded inserts. In which case, you could have just started with the inserts.

Of course, if you are going to do this, you would want to fabricate custom T nuts from stainless steel, with the threading extending down just shy of the heel of the neck.

 

[Cagey]

Cagey has been tooting those for years

Not T nuts. Threaded inserts. At least, on necks. I do use T nuts on speaker enclosures to hold the speakers in place.

 

[Last Triumph]

Cagey has been tooting those for years

Not T nuts. Threaded inserts. At least, on necks. I do use T nuts on speaker enclosures to hold the speakers in place.

Just so I know for when you do my neck, what are your inserts made from?

 

[Cagey]

Just so I know for when you do my neck, what are your inserts made from?

I used to use the brass parts, but have switched over to the stainless. They cost more, but they don't get chewed up so easily during installation. Neck woods being some of the harder woods used to make things, they tend to fight back when you try compressing it.

At one time, I worried about the stainless inserts galling against the stainless screws and inadvertently locking a neck onto a body, but as it turns out that hasn't been a problem. Still, I put a tiny dab of molybdenum disulfide assembly lube on the screw before assembly as insurance.

 

[swarfrat]

I actually think I remember hearing about someone doing that.

Not so great on single piece maple necks mind you...

You just need to use a 24 fret neck with the right inlays.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

8-32 to hold a neck on seems weak.  2 are good enough to hold a ceiling fan I guess.

 

[Cagey]

They've been holding necks on with #8 wood screws since forever. An 8-32 machine screw is a lot stronger, and will pull tighter.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Well, if you're gonna use facts....

But seriously, I've never snapped a neck screw, but have snapped an 8-32.  FWIW, a normal neck screw gets plenty tight.  I was under the impression the advantage of the threaded inserts was that it kept from stripping the neck if removing for travel or frequent body swaps, not that it was tone thing.

 

[duosonic]

I'm using these right now from Onyx.  They're pretty good.  Would be great to find a cheaper source though.

http://www.onyxforgeguitars.com/Insert%20kit.html

 

[DangerousR6]

So I'm looking at all the hoopla about neck inserts, to then use machine bolts to attach the neck. And you can't hardly search Google for "threaded inserts" without those pesky "T-nuts" popping up in your search.

And, you can't hardly look at those and realize where they belong -

underneath the fingerboard.

All any neck builder has to do is route four little flat circles on the neck, stick in the T-nuts and glue the fretboard down.... it makes the threaded insert method look both physically weak and laughably complicated by comparison. I mean, I would pay Warmoth $25 extra to put those in, and a package of 8-32 size T-nuts is $6.71 - for one hundred.

8-32 is rather small, I'd want at least a 10-32 or even a 1/4-28...And the nuts would need to be hardened stainless....

 

[Cagey]

That's the primary advantage I've always thought they had. Some say there's a "tone" improvement as well. I don't know if it there is or not. It sorta makes sense, but I don't know that it's ever been measured. Of course, that's true of a lotta unsupported claims made about guitar stuff.

 

[stubhead]

The Onyx Forge sets use zinc inserts, not a good material for strength. The problems with any screw larger than the 8-32 is the size of the inserts that's associated with a 10-32, 1/4" etc. You're already skating pretty close to the neck edge with the inserts that need a 17/64", 9/32" or 5/16" hole. I would certainly hope that somewhere out there in Fastenerland, there are high-grade T-nuttish devices, in fact I've seen something like that, but without even the little teeth folded over. But I can't remember where.  :sad1:

To say "it changes production line processes" slithers rather close to  "If it was good enough for Leo, it's good enough for me! Why when James Burton recorded "Green Onions" in 1492, HE didn't need no T-bolts..." The point is, a manufacturer could build a great improvement into neck mounting strength by setting the fasteners while attaching the fingerboard, but - they haven't yet. Send money....

(Skuttlefunk on this forum has the steel inserts that mount with a slotted bit for sale, and there is currently a guy on Ebay selling the steel ones that mount with a hex bit.) 

Personally, if they made me God-for-a-day the first thing I would do is mandate that we chuck out the entire "Leo got it right" meme, and firstly I would make the damn neck pockets 3/16" - 1/4" wider, so the necks could be wider, so you could USE a "vintage" Fender wide string spacing at the bridge (good for fingerpicking!) without the strings falling off both sides of the neck. And, with an improved-width neck you would have room to add fatter connections. That would probably use up my whole day, huh.

 

[riverbluff]

I have used a lot of these T-Nuts while building RC airplanes.  They are typically used ro mount motor mounts to the firewall.  My experience with them is great on plywood (only occassionally will the barbs bend flat).  I would never trust them on a hard wood used on guitar necks. Another bad thing about them is they can pop out of the wood very easily if to much pressure is used when installing them.