My First Bad Warmoth Experience

[Wizard of Wailing]

      My 8th Warmoth neck has come with a bad fret job.  I know Warmoth doesn't do leveling, but I expected to at least be able to play this $400 neck out of the box like my previous 7. Two spots on the neck are unplayable because of high frets.  The rest of the frets are very uneven.  Warmoth customer service told me that as long as the frets are pressed in all the way, it's not their problem.  The associate even used the phrase, which no one in customer service should ever use, "It is what it is."  I'm sure I'll buy  another Warmoth down the line, but for my next guitar I am now leaning to an off the rack model.

 

[vikingred]

      My 8th Warmoth neck has come with a bad fret job.  I know Warmoth doesn't do leveling, but I expected to at least be able to play this $400 neck out of the box like my previous 7. Two spots on the neck are unplayable because of high frets.  The rest of the frets are very uneven.  Warmoth customer service told me that as long as the frets are pressed in all the way, it's not their problem.  The associate even used the phrase, which no one in customer service should ever use, "It is what it is."  I'm sure I'll buy  another Warmoth down the line, but for my next guitar I am now leaning to an off the rack model.

Sucks, man.  Reminds me of my doctor telling me, in regards to my severe back pain, "You're just going to have to learn to live with it".  Fired him.  Never had a bad fret job yet from W.  Hope I never do.

 

[Cederick]

Just get a guitar tech to level the frets out?

That's what I'm doing with my latest Warmoth strat neck. It has a little buzz and a fretout or two when bending high up on the neck. Not a big deal. I've been playing it for over a year now, haha! We'll see when I get around to actually let somebody fix it.

Honestly, I'm more surprised when Warmoth makes a perfect "fret job" with a perfectly playable neck; I've had that 2 times before, and I could get ridicolous low action with no fret buzz whatsoever.

 

[stratamania]

I know there are a lot of folks who buy a neck from Warmoth or another parts provider and play it without any work. But really frets pressed in and the ends made flush, even if by chance the frets end up reasonably level and may be playable to some, it isn't really a neck at the final stage for a fully assembled instrument.

How "bad" is it really. Have you tried any truss rod adjustment ?

What does very uneven mean, is this by measurement or it just feels wrong on an assembled instrument ?  It's surprising how little a difference the fingers can feel.

Personally I would not attempt to play a neck that I had not levelled, re crowned as required and certainly dressed the fret ends of or got somebody else to do it.

Most good manufacturers do this work prior to letting an instrument out of the door. If it wasn't required it would not be part of the process. However remember Warmoth are providing parts not a completed instrument.

 

[Wizard of Wailing]

      Of course Warmoth is providing parts and not a completed instrument, but that doesn't excuse shoddy workmanship on those parts.  According to their website ,"Quality is paramount. Our entire operation is geared toward crafting excellence." 
    To get specific, the E and B strings on two frets are totally unplayable because the next frets are too high, so I'm playing E 5th fret and instead of an A I get a B flat. On two other spots the strings fret out.  As to "uneven frets", that's my friend who is a luthier talking.  I can live with uneven frets just fine, as long as I can play all the notes and not fret out. 
      My previous 7 necks came out of the box playable and have required no work since I received them. So I see no reason why neck #8 should be any different.  I'm not expecting perfection, just playability.  I also expected that a company I've bought 8 guitars from in the past 6 years would do more to make me happy instead of telling me I'm SOL.
   

 

[mayfly]

I agree that the warmoth guy on the phone should have handled your issue better.

Do you have any pictures for us?  I too have hand a many (13 in my case) warmoth necks and they've all been very playable with no work besides cutting the nut.  I'm very interested in seeing what a bad one looks like.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Phone situation could have been handled better, but even with 7 prior necks being playable out of the box, it is normative to expect that such a component will require a level/crown/polish job as part of a normal setup.

There are a handful of a few manufacturers of complete guitars (not assembled parts) that do this work prior to going out the door.  They fall under a higher class of guitar when you walk into a music store.

Take your big movers like Fender, Gibson.  I can walk into GuiTarget right now and encounter at least a dozen of their instruments that need this work performed, and it ticks me off every single time, because a $3000 guitar should play like a $3000 guitar, not like its Squier or Epi counterpart.  Heck, even some of those have been setup better with straighter necks & such.

It will perform better and be more comfortable, but such a setup at a very minimum will result in better intonation simply by creating that fine line across the top of the fretwire that only can be achieved through leveling/crowning. 

 

[mrpinter]

Talk about first world problems! This is a total non-issue. Everybody buying a neck from Warmoth should know that some fretwork might be necessary, and is advisable to have it checked professionally to see if needed. Period.

 

[mayfly]

I didn't want to come out and say it, but I pretty much agree.

 

[MikeW]

...  It has a little buzz and a fretout or two when bending high up on the neck. Not a big deal. I've been playing it for over a year now, haha! We'll see when I get around to actually let somebody fix it. ...

This. Almost every neck I've seen from Warmoth has needed at least a little fretwork. My Maple/Maple had several high frets in the 12-17 range that needed to be crowned. My Canary/Ebony required a complete fret job to be playable. My Pao Ferro/Pao Ferro didn't require crowning as much as the fret ends were fairly sharp and needed to be smoothed. All of the frets on all three of these necks were installed correctly, but just required a bit more work to be considered 'done'.

There are also manufacturing tolerances that come into play here as well. I'm sure that not every millimeter of fretwire that is produced has exactly the same thickness. It would be unreasonable to think that is the case. So what if a piece of fretwire that is installed at the 5th fret is a smidge smaller than the wire that is used on the 7th fret? The wire is still all within manufacturing tolerances, but results in fretting out on the 7th just due to the fact that it's a bit taller.

Over and over we hear that W is a parts supplier only. To expect anything more than that is inviting disappointment, I think.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Artfully articulated.

Additionally, every single setup is best executed with the individual end user in mind, ie; their string brand/gauge, action preferences, etc...  Many of these things are very subjective, and need the input of the user in order to execute, well.  Measurements are taken of the instrument strung up, under playing tension, and adjustments are made to replicate that when strings are removed.  (Granted, not everyone has Dan Erlewines Neck Jig)  How much fallaway to execute on this instrument compared to another is player specific.

More often than not, when you find a higher ended guitar that has all of this work performed prior to leaving their facility, many of these instruments are from players with very similar setup needs, and even then, final adjustments are made on the user end.

 

[Wizard of Wailing]

      I guess I've got a lot of 1st world problems because I foolishly expect value for my money.  The fact that they're a parts supplier does not excuse this.  This goes beyond a minor problem, when 8 notes are totally useless and there is fretting out at two other points.  I'm sure once my friend is done working on it (sorry I didn't get any photos of the neck), I'll love it and it will play perfect.  However, I had no idea that Warmoth had a philosophy of "Oh well.  It is what it is."  Someone should have caught this before it shipped.  If they would've just refunded me $50 I would've been happy because that's probably all my friend will charge me (if that).  As it is, I will be going to USACG for my necks in the future.  However, I'll still use Warmoth's bodies.

 

[mrpinter]

I'll have to agree that "it is what it is" was a lousy response from the W rep. And strangely enough my last finished neck from them didn't need anything done to it - and this from my tech who is super picky and has done fret work on previous Warmoth parts builds for me. Go figure. But still, I don't ever expect all the frets to be even or player-ready when I get them. I'm sorry about your bad luck with that one, and maybe my reply was unduly harsh... so I apologize for that, but I still think you did not get cheated on your neck.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Seven out of eight necks being good to go straight out of the box is a pretty phenomenal streak of good fortune. I'd be more inclined to offer congratulations than condolences!

 

[Wizard of Wailing]

    It'll all work out ok in the end.  I just wish I knew that Warmoth's policy was (as the associate stated) is ,"As long as the frets are pressed in all the way, anything else is up to you to take care off."  I don't know what USACG's policy is but I will definitely talk to someone from the company to find out before I order anything from them.  Lesson learned.  It just seems that a small refund would've gone a long way toward some good will with me.  I've bought 8 necks and would've kept on buying from Warmoth, but now I'm going to look elsewhere for necks. However,  Warmoth's bodies are still the best buy on the market.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

In all reality, you could get the same results from USACG, in fact, Tommy used to work at Warmoth up until about 10-ish years ago.
I've been in both shops times, and they both operate across town from one another, operate similarly, in similar humidity conditions, with similar suppliers.

It's completely realistic to expect that 8 notes or so could potentially be out if there has not been a level/crown job done on the neck.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

The only aftermarket supplier I've seen guarantee perfect frets on new necks as-shipped is Guitar Mill. I haven't used them yet, but I'm intrigued. If the fret work is your do-or-die criteria on a new neck, they might be worth checking out. Their prices seem comparable.

http://guitarmill.com/guitarmill/guiter-necks/

Yeah, "guiter necks", seems like that would be worth fixing!

 

[vikingred]

    ...I don't know what USACG's policy...

What did you just say? 

 

[vikingred]

The only aftermarket supplier I've seen guarantee perfect frets on new necks as-shipped is Guitar Mill. I haven't used them yet, but I'm intrigued. If the fret work is your do-or-die criteria on a new neck, they might be worth checking out. Their prices seem comparable.

http://guitarmill.com/guitarmill/guiter-necks/

Yeah, "guiter necks", seems like that would be worth fixing!

I checked that site out.  Interesting.  Can someone explain in plain english what this means:  "A slight amount of “Fall Away” is added in each fingerboard below the 12th fret. Hardly visible but very noticeable when playing. This subtle “slope down” allows for lower action and cleaner string bends."  Thanks.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

"Fall away" is the process of deviating from perfectly level frets and actually making the upper frets gradually shorter to allow for lower action without buzzing/fretting out.