Mounting Hipshot Tremolo using Wilkinson Recessed route

[MastaMitchell]

Hey guys, I'm running into a bit of an issue when trying to mount my Hipshot tremolo. I read on this post: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=3789.0 that the Wilkinson Recessed route is the best option for this tremolo. However, when I try to install the threaded inserts, they are way too loose and the holes go way too deep. The inserts easily slide in and out. I'm waiting to hear back from Hipshot about this. I'm afraid that the Wilkinson route's holes may be incompatible with the Hipshot inserts. If that's the case, could I just use inserts from a Wilkinson tremolo? I sure hope so. Thanks!

 

[Cagey]

Right off the bat, you've got metric vs. imperial dimension issues, so spot-on replacement parts with common mounting requirements are going to be pretty thin on the ground, if they exist at all. But, alternative schemes would be easier to plot if we knew some model numbers. Hipshot and Wilkinson both make a variety of bridges.

 

[MastaMitchell]

Thanks for the reply. The SKU is 42100V (6 String US Contour Tremolo). I'm really sad that I didn't just go with my gut on the Fender American Standard route, but that thread suggested the Wilkinson would be the best. Damn. I suppose if I have to sell the Hipshot for a compatible trem, it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. If you have any ideas as to how I could make the Hipshot work, I'd be very grateful.

 

[Cagey]

I've made situations like that work before, but it might be more work than you're willing to do. When the hole is over-sized, you typically have to drill it out to the next closest standard dowel size up, glue a plug cut from the dowel into the hole, then re-drill it to the correct size. The Wilkinson is hole is .382", while you need the smaller .375 (3/8"), so I think you'd probably have to go up to a .500" dowel to get away with this. When you drill either hole, you should use either a brad point or a Forstner bit to prevent tearout or chipping.

Also, make sure the centerlines for the bushing holes are the same distance apart, and that the saddles are centered between the two posts on both bridges.

If the guitar is finished you'll be able to see the repair, but it's not obvious. If not, it becomes somewhere between less obvious and invisible, depending on how you finish it.

 

[BigSteve22]

....I'm waiting to hear back from Hipshot about this. I'm afraid that the Wilkinson route's holes may be incompatible with the Hipshot inserts. If that's the case, could I just use inserts from a Wilkinson tremolo? I sure hope so. Thanks!

I'd wait to hear back from Hipshot before deciding on a course of action. I had a problem when replacing tuners on my Hagstrom H2. I didn't want to drill new holes in a 50 year old headstock and the supplied "UMP"s didn't fit right. It took a couple of weeks to fit it into their work flow, but hey actually custom fabed a set to the required specs and didn't even charge me for the extra work!

Never know, they might surprise you.

 

[MastaMitchell]

I'm definitely not trying to do that much work, haha. Are you certain the Hipshot wouldn't function properly with inserts from a Wilkinson? The spacing is the same on both. 

I'm still waiting to hear back from Hipshot; I'd be very surprised if they made a custom piece for me. Hopefully they have a solution that allows me to keep the Hipshot. I've read so many great things, I'd be very bummed if I had to settle (although I'm sure a nice Wilkinson would be great). It's my first partscaster, so some speedbumps are to be expected I suppose.

 

[Cagey]

I suppose if you have a big enough wrench to make imperial and metric threads play nice together, it could be made to work, although it may make it tough to adjust bridge height. Of course, you don't have to do that every day, so it might not be so bad  :laughing7:

I don't know how the other guy you found did it; I suspect he was using different parts. Or, maybe I'm looking at the wrong parts. I'll go back and review. Hate to make you jump through hoops you don't need to - I like the Hipshot parts, too.

 

[Cagey]

Ok. This is the drill pattern for the bridge you bought from Hipshot...

and this is the bridge your body is routed for...

Clearly, the Hipshot part uses imperial dimensions, and the Wilkinson part is metric. The bushings for the Hipshot are .375" (3/8" or 9.5mm) in diameter while the Wilkie's are 10mm. The pivot post thread pitch for the the Hipshot is not specified, while the Wilkie's are called out with an M6 thread. But, it's pretty safe bet that if every dimension on the Hipshot drawing is imperial, the threads are SAE. Maybe not, but without more definitive information that's the call I'd make.

 

[MastaMitchell]

Thanks a lot for the info. I'm gonna wait to see what Hipshot says, but it's looking like I'm gonna have to go with a nice Wilkinson. Do you know how those compare to the Hipshot as far as tuning stability, tone, and feel go?

 

[Fat Pete]

If you can get a pair of Wilkinson studs easily/cheaply, it wouldn't hurt to try that first would it? The spacing difference from Cagey's drawings is only 0.016"/0.412mm - well within the tolerances the Hipshot is designed for. I'd be surprised if the diameter of the post was significantly different where it's important.

But maybe I'm missing something - I often am!

 

[Cagey]

There is no difference in quality or performance, only in appearance. They're essentially the same design. I mainly use the Wilkinson because it costs a bit less and is directly supported by Warmoth. But, I've used the Hipshot to good effect as well some others like Schaller, who also make some nice high-quality bridges. Basically, when it comes to vibrato bridges, you want one that uses the two-point fulcrum and has saddles that are individually adjustable for height as well as travel (intonation). Those two features are what will get you repeatability, a reliable return to neutral, and fine tuning for matching fretboard radius and intonation.

 

[Cagey]

But maybe I'm missing something - I often am!

Metric vs. SAE (imperial) threads on the pivot posts.

 

[mayfly]

Can you buy wilkinson studs/posts individually?  I imagine they would be compatible with any knife edge vibrato.

That would solve yer problem!

 

[Cagey]

That's an excellent idea! Unfortunately, like most guitar bridges and tuners, the various incarnations of Wilkinsons are exclusively made overseas and are generally exported as assemblies, so individual parts are nearly impossible to get. But, one could troll ebay for a while and perhaps get a used unit cheap enough to cannibalize. Or, Guitar Fetish even sells new ones for $53. Kind of a high price to pay for a couple bushings and studs, but the Hipshot unit was $150 all by itself. Considering the loss that'll be incurred by selling it, maybe it's not a bad price after all.

 

[Fat Pete]

But maybe I'm missing something - I often am!

Metric vs. SAE (imperial) threads on the pivot posts.

Yes, I got that - I was suggesting using Wilkinson's studs (posts) - but $53 seems a bit steep!

 

[mayfly]

But maybe I'm missing something - I often am!

Metric vs. SAE (imperial) threads on the pivot posts.

Yes, I got that - I was suggesting using Wilkinson's studs (posts) - but $53 seems a bit steep!

Turns out that great minds think alike!  Or is that not-so-great minds think alike...  :icon_thumright:

 

[stratamania]

in the UK at time of writing £16.95 or $17.73 and with postage to the USA just over $30 all in.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/bridges-tailpieces-c2/bridge-parts-c34/gotoh-wilkinson-vs-100-stud-and-insert-set-2-p4920

 

[MastaMitchell]

in the UK at time of writing £16.95 or $17.73 and with postage to the USA just over $30 all in.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/bridges-tailpieces-c2/bridge-parts-c34/gotoh-wilkinson-vs-100-stud-and-insert-set-2-p4920

Nice find! It makes sense to me that any two post trem would be able to sit under any two posts that are approximately equally spaced. Right? That's just what my gut tells me. I'm probably gonna grab these inserts to make sure though. Thanks for the feedback btw guys. Super helpful.

 

[stratamania]

in the UK at time of writing £16.95 or $17.73 and with postage to the USA just over $30 all in.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/bridges-tailpieces-c2/bridge-parts-c34/gotoh-wilkinson-vs-100-stud-and-insert-set-2-p4920

Nice find! It makes sense to me that any two post trem would be able to sit under any two posts that are approximately equally spaced. Right? That's just what my gut tells me. I'm probably gonna grab these inserts to make sure though. Thanks for the feedback btw guys. Super helpful.

Thanks, for the cost of the inserts + shipping it has to be worth a try. My gut tells me it should pivot as expected on the Gotoh inserts also.