Mahogany...to fill or not to fill

[jim232777]

I'm currently planning a mahogany body with a swamp ash top, and a cherry Wudtone finish.  I'm trying to decide on how much, if any, grain fill to use.  I've seen lots of ash with little to no fill and it looks great.  Has anyone done mahogany without filling?  I'm wondering if it looks good, or if I need to fill the mahogany while leaving the ash open.
Thanks for advice or pictures!

 

[swarfrat]

Swamp ash is pretty in its own right but... If you got mahogany, why???

 

[DuckBaloo]

Has anyone done mahogany without filling?

Gibson has. The "Faded" line of guitars all lack grain filler. I expect with a heavy sealer barrier coat to seal out moisture.

If you want that rustic look to the sunk-in grain on the ash, it should be fine to not fill the mahogany either. Frain filler and some sort of pre-catalyzed vinyl sealer is necessary for mirror-smooth gloss finishes, but less so for faded, weathered, or satin.

 

[jim232777]

Swamp ash is pretty in its own right but... If you got mahogany, why???

LOL, yeah, I’ve gone back and forth to all mahogany.  Problem is, some mahogany is beautiful, and some is boring.  I don’t really want to spring for the “unique choice” and I’ve got a better chance at noticeable grain with the ash.  I might go back mahogany on mahogany.  Still have the decision on the filling, though.

 

[PhilHill]

Do you have to fill mahogany?, in short Yes. The question is "How you fill it" You can forgo the filler and just finish it, but mahogany will suck up finish for a while. So really your just using the finish to fill it. I have done this with Tru Oil and Laquer. You put on several coats, Let it dry completely then sand it down until you start to hit wood again. Put on several more coats, let it dry completely and sand again. Then start your finish coats. When I say let it dry, I mean for about a week or so, till it's fairly hard. Any finish takes awhile to harden up, it doesn't do it over night, don't care what the makers say. So the secret is patience. The initial coats should be sanded back until the surface is bare wood, only the pores still have finish in them. Then when you start the final coats just sand like your leveling it out, not all the way down. Just takes time and care. Good luck on it whatever way you do it............ :icon_thumright:

 

[jim232777]

Gibson has. The "Faded" line of guitars all lack grain filler. I expect with a heavy sealer barrier coat to seal out moisture.

If you want that rustic look to the sunk-in grain on the ash, it should be fine to not fill the mahogany either. Frain filler and some sort of pre-catalyzed vinyl sealer is necessary for mirror-smooth gloss finishes, but less so for faded, weathered, or satin.

Thanks for the tip on the Faded series.  Google showed some very nice faded cherry SGs.  I’m thinking I could go for that look.

 

[jim232777]

The question is "How you fill it" You can forgo the filler and just finish it, but mahogany will suck up finish for a while. So really your just using the finish to fill it. I have done this with Tru Oil and Laquer.

Exactly!  I like the nice, thin finishes.  For a while I was thinking Tru Oil and may still do that.  I’ve also been looking at the Wudtone finishes.  The application instructions are similar to the Tru Oil, right down to care in disposing of the rag, so they are likely of the curing oil family.  They have an option for a transparent grain filler that is going to do essentially what you’re describing, but a little faster than just plain finish.  The other option is to omit and let the finish seal up the pores, but leave the depression in the grain area.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Cagey]

I don't do "oil" fniishes, so I can't speak to that, but lacquer will eventually fill in the grain on Mahogany or Swamp Ash. However, it's a time-consuming and expensive way to accomplish that. Time consuming because you have to finish it, carefully sand it back, then refinish it numerous times for that to work, and you may still end up with visible grain 6 months down the road because even seemingly dry lacquer will continue to shrink for at least that long. It's not a lot, but it's enough to show up on a gloss finish. On top of that, using lacquer as a filler is kinda pricey. You'll end up putting numerous coats on, then sanding most of off before you're filled in enough to be happy. All those lacquer solids just end up on the floor instead of your guitar. Better to just sand off filler than finish - that's really its raison d'etre - then final finish that. It's cheap, fast and effective.

Incidentally, that tendency of lacquer to shrink means you have to be the "Anal Retentive Finisher". Any imperfection, no matter how small, will show up 6 months down the road. So, on surface prep patience is a virtue you'll have to practice diligently, unless you enjoy inventing new cuss words  :laughing7:

 

[Rick]

Filling with oil based finish anything will take a looooooooong time.