Lollar "el rayo's" vs. Bareknuckle "Stormy Mondays"

[Blakeah]

Right now I have a delima.  I am looking for a good clean humbucker (if there is such a thing).  I have narrowed it down to Lollar "el rayo's"  vs.  Bareknuckle "Stormy Mondays".  Both have reave reviews.  I have a tele that has a pair of bare knuckle single coils that I LOVE.  But I have also heard great things about loller.  What are your thoughts?

 

[Nando Vallart]

Well, seems like the El Rayo is quite different from the Stormy Monday... He seems that will sound more like a single-coil than humbucker...

The Stormy Monday is inspired on the early PAF and the ones from ES335 with Alnico II magnets... So what do you want them to sound?

 

[Cagey]

You will not likely ever hear anything bad about Bareknuckle or Lollar pickups. For what they cost, anyone who'd buy them is going to defend their decision like a panicky momma bear, lest they appear foolish. I don't doubt that they sound good - I'm sure they do - but I'm not convinced they're worth half what is charged for them.

Traditional humbuckers rarely "clean up" completely. Their physical design sorta forces them to be less-than-accurate sensors. Usually an intrinsically low output part, or a hotter part that has been throttled back is as good as it gets. Different magnets, winding schemes, pole materials, positioning, etc. will change the character somewhat, so some experimentation will eventually turn up something that'll make you happy, but you might find that what you're already using is just fine if you simply knock the volume knob back a couple/few clicks.

 

[MSP]

I've had all kinds of third-party pickups over the years and Lollar and Bareknuckle are my favourites.  It's hard to compare them directly, because different pickups sound different in different guitars, but my non-scientific experience says that BKPs sound clearer and punchier, whereas Lollars sound richer. 

 

[tfarny]

I'm sure those are excellent pickups and if you're determined to pay top dollar you'll be happy with either. There are lots of great humbuckers that clean up well though. SD Jazz is a great pickup for instance and can be had on ebay for about $75. I had Ken at Roadhouse pickups wind me a pretty low-output T-Top style neck bucker and that is a fantastic neck pup at a reasonable price.
BTW I own lollar pickups and I'm very happy with them, but I also own other brands that I'm equally happy with and that cost less.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have a set of Ken's pickups from Roadhouse in my seven.  The bridge sounds like the BKP Nailbomb I have in my Les Paul.  But I like the Roadhouses better.  That being said, the pickups/player connection is a strange thing.  If find your sound, go with it.  If you are looking for a sound, I'd look around and see what is out there at all of the price ranges.  I have a bunch of very expensive pickups, and some that are not that expensive.  For most things I have settled on Roadhouse pickups, because I can ask Ken to make them the way I think I want them.  And he does a great job figuring out what I think I want.  If that makes any sense.  So unless it is a strange design, like the wide range humbucker, or the TV Jones pickup style, I have found my brand.
Patrick

 

[ezas]

It's your call on the pickups. But from the sound clips I like the BK's more. On the El Rayos it seems like Lollar is using lower windings and/or wire with low resistance (the resistance figures are really low) with a stronger magnet. The BKs are a late 50's vintage output with weaker magnets (Alnico II on the Stormy Mondays). The Stormy Monday's have the option to order them unpotted which I don't see for the Lollars. On the Stormy Mondays I hear a more bluesy vibe and on the Lollars I hear a more country-blues vibe. But that is just based on the sound clips so take that for what it's worth.

 

[Ace Flibble]

You will not likely ever hear anything bad about Bareknuckle or Lollar pickups. For what they cost, anyone who'd buy them is going to defend their decision like a panicky momma bear, lest they appear foolish. I don't doubt that they sound good - I'm sure they do - but I'm not convinced they're worth half what is charged for them.

For once I absolutely agree with you. Especially in the case of BKP, which many people treat as some kind of holy grail of tone when really there are several other makers (even others in the UK) that make the same thing for less. And even with all their scatterwound, purist-pleasing ''vintage-correct'' glory, ultimately it's still just a magnet with some wire wrapped around a bit of plastic. I'm loathe to pay Seymour Duncan/DiMarzio prices, let alone the ridiculous £100+ per pickup that BKP ask. I actually did buckle a while back and bought a bunch of their pickups and I have to say I really was not impressed in the slightest. They responded no better than the equivalent SD/DM pickups and cost twice as bloody much.

Suffice to say I go to at-the-creamery.co.uk now if I want something custom-spec, or I just lump for the trusty old SD or DM models. Save yourself some money, don't believe the (frankly ridiculous) hype. £100+ for a pickup is daylight robbery.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

You can also try some of the GFS stuff. (www.guitarfetish.com)

They have some pickups that pay homage to someof the older classics, but then some quirky creations as well, and the price doesn't require a mortgage like some manufacturers do.

I absolutely love my NEOVINT07 for my Tele.

 

[bagman67]

I can't claim any empirical knowledge about the Bareknuckles or the Lollars, but I am totally ready to back up everything good that's been said about GFS and our very own Ken (TroubledTreble)'s Roadhouse pups.  Good stuff, good prices.  Plus Ken really does custom-wind your pickups to your spec, if you've got a special need you want met.


bagman

 

[MSP]

Especially in the case of BKP, which many people treat as some kind of holy grail of tone when really there are several other makers (even others in the UK) that make the same thing for less. And even with all their scatterwound, purist-pleasing ''vintage-correct'' glory, ultimately it's still just a magnet with some wire wrapped around a bit of plastic.

Even though I like BKPs, I always thought the original PAFs were wound by a machine.  It was the early single-coils that were directed by hand via the winding mechanism.  I could be wrong, though.

 

[ezas]

You can also try some of the GFS stuff. (www.guitarfetish.com)

They have some pickups that pay homage to someof the older classics, but then some quirky creations as well, and the price doesn't require a mortgage like some manufacturers do.

I absolutely love my NEOVINT07 for my Tele.

Not sure I would put GFS in the same range as BK/Lollar but I'm a fan of GFS.

I think they are better than 'for the price' I never listen to my Pro '63 single coils and wish I'd spent more to get 'better' pickups. One of the things I like about the GFS '63 is when I listen to the single coil sound clips on the BK site the PUPs that sound the most like the GFS I have is the '63 veneer boards, so the voicing claims of GFS are not total BS.

HOWEVER, I put BK Mother's Milk single coils in a friends guitar and I can't imagine anything sounding better.

I like GFS enough, and after a lot of shopping, my next set of replacement PU's for an Ibanez AM73 are coming from GFS. Now if it was an $1,000 guitar I'd be putting GFS Mules in it.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

You can also try some of the GFS stuff. (www.guitarfetish.com)

They have some pickups that pay homage to someof the older classics, but then some quirky creations as well, and the price doesn't require a mortgage like some manufacturers do.

I absolutely love my NEOVINT07 for my Tele.

Not sure I would put GFS in the same range as BK/Lollar but I'm a fan of GFS.

I think they are better than 'for the price' I never listen to my Pro '63 single coils and wish I'd spent more to get 'better' pickups. One of the things I like about the GFS '63 is when I listen to the single coil sound clips on the BK site the PUPs that sound the most like the GFS I have is the '63 veneer boards, so the voicing claims of GFS are not total BS.

HOWEVER, I put BK Mother's Milk single coils in a friends guitar and I can't imagine anything sounding better.

I like GFS enough, and after a lot of shopping, my next set of replacement PU's for an Ibanez AM73 are coming from GFS. Now if it was an $1,000 guitar I'd be putting GFS Mules in it.

But you  gotta admit, it's a lot more cost effective to experiment with $30-$35 pickups than $150-$300 pickups, and you just so happens that you'll probably like them.

 

[tfarny]

I've had good and so-so experiences with GFS. If you have an Ebay account and are willing to resell, experimenting with the big-name brands isn't that expensive, just keep the packaging etc. There are always buyers for Fralin and the other famous makers.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Ever considered a P90 is a humbucker case?  Theres several brands available out there, and most are inexpensive to try.  I only say that because I recently dropped a GFS P90 in the neck position of my guitar and it has very nice cleans and versatility yet still compliments my bridge hum bucker well.  Just a thought..

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Orpheo has a triple humbucker LP with a P-90 in the middle position and he says this is his "go to" axe for the additional combination that it yields.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=18992.msg279522#msg279522

 

[DustyCat]

Maybe you could shed a little more light as to the function and setting. Are you in a band? Duet/trio? Solo? What style? What artist/guitartist are you hoping to emulate/not emulate?

+1 to low output (i.e. Alnico II magnets) for cleaner tone (duhh). But even my Wide range tele sounds hotter and crispier and more "forward" than my SD 59/JB.
Also, never underestimate the power of aural suggestion when playing with/in front/for other people, especially strangers. And finally here's where I lose all credibility when I say I am really digging the stock SC pickups on my buddies 1990's MIM Fender Strat  :icon_thumright: A LOT!  :icon_thumright:

-DC

 

[AutoBat]

I have a friend with a 2007 Eric Johnson Strat that was embarrassed to tell me that my 1994 MIM Strat (back when it was stock) sounded & played just as good.

 

[Blakeah]

So I guess to let you guys know what I am looking for might help.  Right now I have two guitar that I am primarily using. 
1-Custom Koa tele with bare knuckle single coils  (I LOVE THIS GUITAR)
2-2011 Gretsch country gentelmen

I love both of these guitars but the problem I have with them is that they both have very specific sounds.  The tele is bright and fat, and the gretsch is bluesy and gritty.  Even though I love both of them very much I want something that is a little more versatile.  That being said I am building a guitar that I am more of less experimenting with.  It is a tele neck (birdeeye maple/ebony) and a jazz master body (swamp ash) routed for two humbuckers.  I love my bare knuckles, but I agree that they are pretty expensive.  If I can get a top of the line sounding pickup for less I am open to that, but if not I would like to go ahead with the BKP's or Lollars.

I usually play with with no distortion or light to medium overdrives.  I never play with fuzz or full on distortion.  I usually rock the neck and middle positions on the switches in both guitars way more than the bridge by its self.  I am also going to have the pickups coil tapped so I can get a good variety of sounds.  I want it to be versatile.  So hopefully that helps in showing you what I am looking for. 

 

[pabloman]

Speaking of EJ, check out the DiMarzio EJ humbuckers. Pretty damn tasty. I gotta say the mothers milk singles mentioned earlier are definately badass.