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Lefty Jazzmaster , mixed feelings

Well, it only took two days of ownership to encounter my first disaster. I got home late, thought I'd try to fit the bridge thimbles again. Sanded the hole, and incrementally checked to see if the thimble would fit ... got it to a point where it seemed like it was starting to fit. So I applied a little bit of pressure and the thimble toppled over, putting a dent in the top of the guitar and -- worse yet -- chipping up a portion of the finish around the bridge post holes.

I'm amazed that I'm not more upset than I am. Maybe I'm in shock. It is definitely disappointing ... but, then, what the heck can I do about it? Bupkus.

I'm once bitten, twice shy, though. I don't even want to look at the guitar now, out of fear of #@$%ing it up. :sad1:
 
Christ.

<rant>
Every time somebody has a hole that's too small, somebody else suggests either a Dremel attack or some sandpaper around a pencil or dowel, or a rat tail file to open the hole up. Since I've been on the board, I've always said when I see that not to try it; it's a failure waiting to happen. You can't make the hole perfectly round, or perfectly cylindrical. You may, with some perseverance, get the hole to where you can fit something in it, but it's less than ideal. More often, something happens like what has happened to you.

So, here's a wild idea: GET THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB! If you can't or won't do that, then take the thing that needs attention to somebody who has the right tool and the talent to use it. It's always faster and cheaper than wrecking the part you're working on.
</rant>

Sorry for your loss.
 
You know, I got a 3/8" bit since that's precisely the size of the thimble, but I didn't want to take the drill to the body. I think why I'm OK with this issue is because I know it's purely my fault for ice cream-footing around the issue.

Thankfully, the blemish I created in the finish is near totally obscured by the bridge and a portion of it will be covered by the lip of the thimble, should I ever get it installed. This is one of those "Oh, crap" moments but it's also a "Well, now you know, firsthand" moment, which isn't at all worthless.

Edit: "ice cream" -footing, by the way is the auto-santize replacement for the five-letter word that often precedes "cat" ... and I don't mean "kitty."
 
Anytime you learn something there's a gain, so at least there's that. And I'm glad to hear the damage was minimal. Sure as hell you're going to smack it on something once it's built anyway, so you just got a head start on breaking it in <grin>
 
Here's the evidence of my pre-emptive "road wearing" of my guitar.  :tard:

The bridge won't sit that low, but it gives me hope that my stupidity can be mostly hidden ... aside, of course, from the ways in which I repeatedly document it on this forum.
 

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Thats a Bummer, but ... at least it will be covered, so all should be good there :toothy11:

Yep ... will always learn something though out life  :icon_biggrin:

Don't be at all put off at all on your 1st build, as I had a hell of a time with one of my 1st Builds  :tard:
It's a great learning curve.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the consolation.

I'm just a bit lost, right now. Is there any validity at all to my fear of taking a 3/8" drill to an 11/32" hole?

I've got thimbles that are exactly 3/8", measured with my calipers. My drill bit is listed at 3/8" but -- when I put the calipers to the tip -- it's just a hair's breadth wider than 3/8", and that seems to be the only place I can get any kind of measurement since the drill twists and varies along the shaft. It's a Milwaukee bit. Feel free to rain down derision for bad tools, if they qualify as such.

It bugs me that the holes in my peg head, which are supposed to be 11/32" are actually 5/16" and that the holes for my bridge, which are supposed to be 3/8" are actually 11/32"

Warmoth said they drill the bridge thimble holes according to vintage specs, but I've got Fender thimbles that are -- or so I thought -- the same thimbles that have always been used in American Jazzmasters.

So, something just doesn't match up, here, and it seems to me that it's that the pre-drilled holes aren't what I need them to be. It's not even finish overhang, at least in the case of the peg head; the entire hole is 5/16" ... I don't get why they say the hole will be 11/32" and then drill it too small.

Yes, I screwed up and I chipped the finish. I own that. And while wishing is pretty pointless, it doesn't keep me from wishing that the holes were as wide as advertised, thus precluding me from @#$%ing up my guitar with my hamfistedness.
 
Running that bit into the hole is going to be a fast operation, so be prepared for it. Also, if it was me, I think I'd take the bit in hand before chucking it into the drill motor and give it a few turns at the opening of the hole to shave the finish off. That'll keep it from trying to chip it up once it's under power. Might also want to wrap the bit in something so you don't cut your fingers on the flutes while it twisting it around.
 
Surely, many things would be preferable, but -- alas -- I have no drill press, nor access to one.

I've got my bit taped off to the depth of the holes, and I plan on taping over the holes -- perforating the tape with my 11/32" bit -- but having the adhesive on the finish at the edges of the already drilled holes. The hope is that I wind up with a result akin to -- I think it was Updown's -- post-finish drilling success.

But that's a story for another day. It's too late to spin the drill and I'd rather have fresh nerves.
 
reluctant-builder said:
The hope is that I wind up with a result akin to -- I think it was Updown's -- post-finish drilling success.

Yes .... BUT please NOTE  :sign13: I used Brad Point Drill Bits

Not a normal every day drill bit !!
 
Bagman67 said:
Cagey, is it preferable for one to use a drill press to make sure it goes straight in?

Yes, but as he's pointed out, he doesn't have one.
 
Oh Goody! Me and Cagey's first fight! (or is that Cagey and I's... naw)

I'm just a bit lost, right now. Is there any validity at all to my fear of taking a 3/8" drill to an 11/32" hole?
Well, sure - even with a brad point drill bit, you can't center the drill bit over a hole that doesn't have a center - because it's a hole. The danger of that is obvious, the drill bit "grabs", it goes in crooked, comes out the back and chips the finish. This may not happen to Cagey, but it's going to happen to somebody without a lot of experience with power tools. Cagey's advice:
Running that bit into the hole is going to be a fast operation, so be prepared for it.
"Be prepared?" What - take a shot of whiskey, pray to Jesus, "prepared" how? Are you talking about cutting a specific length of tube from a BiC pen* or something, fitted over the drill bit to act as a positive stop for the drill bit so it can't go too deep, or is this "preparation" more metaphysical... I used to have to write recipes and train cooking staff, and you learn the hard way to accommodate the advice to the skills and tools of the recipient. It's not safe to tell somebody "Bring the water to a boil, then add the noodles...". You have to tell them to "take the noodles out of the package" or they'll throw the whole goddam box in the water (it happened).

*(probably have to be a "widebody" BiC for that size)

It's a tiny, tiny adjustment that's needed. And if you're not experienced with power tools or the way a bit can grab (the technical term is "runaway") and if you don't have the body clamped down and if you haven't devised some positive stop for the drill bit, that's a real recipe for fast & major problems. I mean, I personally would probably use a few woodcarving chisels in there too, but to cut perpendicular to the grain they have to be devilishly sharp and I'm not going to advise somebody about the whole process of sharpening outcannel gouge chisels (which they don't have) with slipstones (which they don't have either).

This part was a bit baffling to me:
You can't make the hole perfectly round, or perfectly cylindrical. You may, with some perseverance, get the hole to where you can fit something in it, but it's less than ideal.
I think what Cagey must've meant to say is that "I can't make the hole perfectly round..." Because many, many people have made round holes with hand tools in  the past, and many many more will do so in the future. Name Stradavarius's top five power tools... It takes some concentration, but that's why I said it may take an hour or two. And it's a lot more "ideal" than drilling a big crooked hole right through the body because your "preparation" was... well I don't even know. By the time I'd finished "preparing" I could have the friggin' holes the right size with hand tools.

And the reason the thimble toppled over was because the hole was still too small. It was impatience, and the need to spend a bit more time on the hole...  "You may, with some perseverance, get the hole to where you can fit something in it.." Great! That's what you want it to do! And if you've taken the time, and the hole is round enough to contact the thimble all the way down 2/3 of it's surface, the act of pushing it in will pressure the rest of the wood to hold it - and since it's the string pressure downward that actually holds it there and the downward force that transmits vibrations, it just needs to be - not wobbly. I'm sure Cagey has seen a jazz guitar with a bridge that's not screwed, glued, doweled to the top at all, it falls off every time you change strings - but it works just fine!

It bugs me that the holes in my peg head, which are supposed to be 11/32" are actually 5/16" and that the holes for my bridge, which are supposed to be 3/8" are actually 11/32"

I don't know if anybody's ever assembled a guitar with parts from four or five different suppliers and NOT had to do some minor adjustments. Heck, the holes that Warmoth drills for the big doofus-ear bass tuners are too small for the Schaller tuners they sell! Here come de rattail file.... These just are not quite Model T's yet, as far as mass production and uniform standards. If you've ever seen pictures from the Fender or Gibson or PRS factories, they have racks and walls with files and chisels and sanding blocks, because even coming from the exact same place & CNC machines the parts don't just snap together like Legos. And it's always better to have a fit that's too tight and needs to be loosened, than to have everything sloppy and wobbly to start with and have to tighten the fit with layers of superglue held in place with paper etc., whole 'nother story there.

And I don't mind having ME AND CAGEY'S first fight, because I know beyond a shadow of doubt that I'm blindingly right, and when he sees the error of his path he will repent and OWE ME.... :evil4: But in the meantime, we can't let the proof of his wrongness be your sacrificial guitar body, so maybe you ought to hold off on those holes until tfarny takes a look at them. And don't let him have any of the wine until the goddam thimbles are banged in. :evil4: :evil4: :evil4:
 
Updown said:
reluctant-builder said:
The hope is that I wind up with a result akin to -- I think it was Updown's -- post-finish drilling success.

Yes .... BUT please NOTE  :sign13: I used Brad Point Drill Bits

Not a normal every day drill bit !!

My bits are brad point, but as Stub pointed out ... makes no difference when the center of what I'd care to drill is .... well, open air.  :sad1:

I'm glad I slept on it. Gonna leave the poor girl alone a little bit and wring my hands a bit more.  :icon_biggrin:
 
I've moved to the "Work in Progress" forum: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17778.0#new

Good news abound; got the thimbles in. Thanks to those who extolled patience and incremental checking. Stub, you were right; I took my time ... but I can't argue with the results.

Tim: good deal; me too.
 

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Great stuff  :icon_thumright:

When I said I used Brad Point Drill Bits .... I did ONLY use those on any NEW holes needed to be drilled for my needs.
NOT on any holes already done !!
Like in the 4th & 6th pic's here .... http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17452.0

Stubhead was spot on about these drill bits in what he stated. But cagey (& others) have also stated the same before too.
:icon_scratch: I'm still wonder why you just didn't wait a few days for the assistance of fellow member tfarny. (which is very kind of him)
I helped out Blackouts on his build too. (Didn't have the tools or space)

Anyway that looks all good in the pic.  :icon_thumright:
 
Updown said:
:icon_scratch: I'm still wonder why you just didn't wait a few days for the assistance of fellow member tfarny. (which is very kind of him)

I am meeting up with Tim on Monday, still, and am grateful for his offer. His help will be invaluable. But, chalk up my not waiting with the bridge thimbles to two things:

1) I really wanted to accomplish something, however minor, on my own, and

2) I really wasn't intending to install the thimbles before meeting up with Tim, but when just testing them out, seeing if -- with a little pressure -- they'd go in the holes ... and the result was them not going in the holes, but rather a big BOO-HOO, I was really determined to make it right on my own, by getting those thimbles in and soldiering on. And I'm happy that I did.

I'm thankful for everyone's help: the suggestions, consolations, insights, anecdotes, etc. I've learned so much in the sort time I've been a forum member. I am not at all afraid to ask for, or accept, help ... but there are times when I just need to feel that sense of accomplishing something all by my lonesome, even if I (or, more accurately, my guitar) get(s) banged up a little in the process. :icon_biggrin:
 
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