Lacquer Finish Questions on Alder

[thewrathchilde]

I have read through most of the posts in the DIY Finishing section and "think" I have got it figured out but wanted to get some input before I get started. I will preface the following by saying I am trying this out on scrap wood to get practice and refine technique before trying this on a body. From what I understand Alder is close/tight grain and does not need to be grain filled before moving on but, it still needs a sanding seal in order to prevent dye from bleeding.

So my process for applying a lacquer finish would be:
1. Sand
2. Apply a lacquer sanding sealer
3. Sand smooth
4. Apply color/dye   
5. Apply Lacquer
6. Sand
7. repeat 5 & 6 till complete.

Does this look like the correct process? Am I missing or leaving anything out?

Also, for a black translucent finish, what typically acheives better results, dye on the wood and lcear lacquer coats on top or mixing dye into some of the lacquer coats and then following it up with additional clear?

thanks,

Steve                                 

 

[Mor Paul]

You wouldn't want to try to dye after sanding sealer. You'll get lousy results, probably splotchy. Tints can go on after sealer, I think. Dyes should go on first. (Correct me if I'm wrong, guys)
And, don't forget polish.

 

[Tonar8352]

Steve what is the final look you are after? That will determine you finish schedule.  Let us know and we can be more specific with the correct steps.

 

[thewrathchilde]

Thanks for the replies;

Tonar- this is an example of what I am looking for: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=12250.0 and here is another example from outside the forum: http://www.musicplanet.co.nz/site/musicplanet/images/large/HAME-SATQE2-TBK.jpg

I know that the Alder body will not look the same as the Ash or Quilt Maple but these pictures show the finish I want even if the wood grain on the Alder isn't as nice as these are.

thanks,

Steve

 

[bagman67]

So to summarize, you want it to look pretty freakin' glossy, then?

 

[Tonar8352]

Based on the pictures you posted you are looking for a dye with a transparent gloss finish.

1. Sand
2. Dye. You need to be aware that Alder will take the dye unevenly.  You can help prevent this by using a stain controller that will even the porosity of the wood out and give you a more uniform job. Look at the BlackDog Tele thread. I did not use stain controller and it think it gives the wood some character but if you will be bothered by it look into stain controller.
3. Sanding sealer and level sand.
4. Clear finish
5. Wet sand and rub out.
 

 

[pabloman]

That's just a transparent black with a blackburst. I really love that finish.

 

[thewrathchilde]

Tonar,  thanks for the additional input. I ordered the body today (showacse body with minor routing) so that gives me couple of weeks to practice on scrap before getting started. Once I get the body and start working on it I will post pics. Did some reading this morning on the stain controller and think I have it figured out.

My step by step instructions to myself are as follows:
1. Sand
2. Apply stain controller
3. Apply dye before the stain controller completely dries
4. Apply sanding sealer
5. Level Sand
6. Clear Finish
7. Wet Sand and Polish

I also have a couple of additional questions- in the BlackDog Tele thread you mentioned you cut the dye with lacquer thinner and retarder, would I need to do the same applying over the stain controller? Was the cut based on how dark you wanted the dye to come out? What was the ratio used of thinner to retarder?

thanks,

Steve

 

[Tonar8352]

I also have a couple of additional questions- in the BlackDog Tele thread you mentioned you cut the dye with lacquer thinner and retarder, would I need to do the same applying over the stain controller? Was the cut based on how dark you wanted the dye to come out? What was the ratio used of thinner to retarder?

The stain controller will drastically reduce how dark the dye will take so I can only suggest that you do sample boards before you get your final mix ratio.

I mix colors as I go to get the effect I want so I usually start light and add some color if it is to light. 

I mix with 2/3 lacquer thinner and 1/3 retarder.  The retarder helps keep it from drying to fast and that way I avoid wiping lines as it is applied.

As far as using it over the stain controller I would differ to the directions of the manufacture of the product.  It may not be compatible with solvent bourn stains.