In news that will surprise no one, Gibson has financial woes

[Verne Bunsen]

I personally consider this to be relevant to the discussion:

Who wouldn’t want a $5000 Les Paul painted like... an Econoline...

https://reverb.com/news/gibson-nods-to-shaggin-wagons-with-new-custom-boogie-van-les-pauls?utm_campaign=1612019_bloggibsonshaggin&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FB

 

[rgand]

I personally consider this to be relevant to the discussion:

Who wouldn’t want a $5000 Les Paul painted like... an Econoline...

https://reverb.com/news/gibson-nods-to-shaggin-wagons-with-new-custom-boogie-van-les-pauls?utm_campaign=1612019_bloggibsonshaggin&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FB

OY! Those look... cheap.

 

[bagman67]

See, this is what a lot of folks are talking about.  These presumably high-margin collectors' items are actively alienating the traditionalists who lean Gibson.  And I don't think there's sufficient critical mass of young, ironic hipsters who would go for these at the price they're offered at.  Jeez, Henry the J.  Wake up and smell the coffee, bub.

 

[pabloman]

It seems like people are just hell-bent on Gibson's demise. They offer American made guitars at every single price point. That's not good enough. People complain that Gibson's just offers up the same ol thing so they start chambering Les Pauls and offering all access neck joints. They get criticized for messing with an icon. They tried to do some things with technology and sustainable woods, they get shit on for that. They offer up some dumb paint jobs and get shit on. There's companies out there that make some real ugly guitars but Gibson is the devil for doing so. Their stuff is over priced.....are they the only ones? What about Fender's $25000 artist replicas? PRS $30000 guitars made from colonial dressers or whatever gimmick he has going on at the time? All these builders are gouging consumers. Gibson has done some dumb stuff for sure....the lawsuits, poor qc, the list goes on but people are bashing for stuff that goes on by all manufactures. That's the part that bugs me the most.

 

[amigarobbo]

And where's the no more 70s brown and orange one?

Not my suggestion, second half of this one:

[youtube]VptaYBgJeJQ[/youtube]

I can't see why the didn't go for a red white and blue livery. And reduce the price by 75%.

 

[bagman67]

You're absolutely right, pabloman, the potshots we're taking at Gibson can also be taken at the other majors, Fender in particular, and for many of the same reasons (although I don't believe PRS is under the same kind of debt strain Fender and Gibson are, because they've stuck with guitars and amps, rather than diversifying by purchasing hordes of other brands).  It does have the whiff of piling on, but I think it's justified to the degree it serves as an example of a larger trend in American businesses, namely, trying to go big via financial-engineered structures that don't serve anyone but the financial engineers.  I realize this is a broad-brush characterization, but there's more than a little truth to it.  Anyway:  You're right, but that doesn't mean other folks are entirely wrong about the same issue.  Your views are valid and they help.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Gibson's oversaturation of the market with sub-standard quality is largely responsible.

Supply & Demand.  It always comes back to that.

If they would have stuck to what they do, ie; guitars, and stayed away from other fields, and then limited production (supply) to increase demand for stellar quality, then fetching $3k & above for an instrument may have been worth it, and there'd be less "crap" quality product rolling around the market place.

When a $500 Epiphone plays as well as a $3K Gibby, guess who the middle class spender is likely to go with?

 

[pabloman]

@bagman.......I get it completely and Gibson deserves crap for all of them. My thing is just all the other stuff that people are bashing Gibson for that occurs across the board. ccasion14:

@Tony......I think you got the supply and demand thing backwards. It's much more of a demand and supply kind of thing. The over priced funky Gibson's are selling. Their stuff gets bought up so they keep pumping it out. Again though man, the Epiphone vs. Gibson thing...There's Squires that play better than Fenders as well. I've seen a lot of Fenders with bad solder joints, poor fret work etc. when I worked at the shop. People generally expect more from Gibson than just about anyone else. I'm sure price tags dictate a lot of that. There's a bunch more but meh. I don't believe diversifying is as directly related to the Gibson qc as much as people think. It's not like the guy is rushing the final set-up so he can hurry and build his quota of home theater receivers. I'm just seeing a bunch of poop being thrown in the wrong direction. They have definitely provided viable poop landing spots though. ccasion14:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I'm just saying that by doing fewer guitars, and doing them with stellar quality, their value may have actually increased as a brand, & there be far less crap in the market place that says "Gibson" on the headstock.

 

[bagman67]

The story I pointed to in he original post in this thread suggests the core guitar business is actually performing well, but it's not clear how much is epiphone and the other budget brands.  Even so - if that is indeed correct, he gripes we iconoclasts have about Gibson quality and design choices are hardly likely to carry the day.  If gibson does file for bankruptcy, I think we'll (a) see a spinoff of various overleveraged brands that Gibson bought up so it can get some cash into the business to then use to restructure its other debt load, and (b) leading creditors and investors will want Henry's head.

 

[Cagey]

I know Cakewalk has ceased development as of a few months ago, so there's one division down.

 

[stratamania]

I know Cakewalk has ceased development as of a few months ago, so there's one division down.

Sold...

https://www.musicradar.com/news/bandlab-rescues-cakewalk-from-gibson

 

[bagman67]

 

[Cagey]

Well, that's good news. I'm not sure what Gibson was thinking about buying that company anyway. Software companies are very different from most other businesses. Gibson buying Cakewalk would be like Ford Motor Company buying Applebees.

 

[bagman67]

Gibson buying Cakewalk would be like Ford Motor Company buying Applebees.

Speaking of overleveraged companies facing the result of their failure to adapt...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/08/10/many-160-applebees-and-ihop-locations-close/556343001/

 

[Cagey]

Hm. Didn't even know Applebee's was in trouble.

My analogy was an attempt to illustrate the folly of wildly disparate businesses trying to live under a common management.

I worked as electrical engineering manager for a couple years for a machine tool manufacturer owned by a guy who had no concept of how software worked or how it was developed. Had that whole "mythical man-hour" thing going on. Quite frustrating. Unlike some disciplines where you progress from point A to B to C to D in a predictable manner, software tends to move in spurts and bursts, with chunks of low productivity in between.

 

[bagman67]

I worked as electrical engineering manager for a couple years for a machine tool manufacturer owned by a guy who had no concept of how software worked or how it was developed. Had that whole "mythical man-hour" thing going on. Quite frustrating. Unlike some disciplines where you progress from point A to B to C to D in a predictable manner, software tends to move in spurts and bursts, with chunks of low productivity in between.

I'm hip.  I've been in the tech sector or tech-sector adjacent here in Silicon Valley for most of my career, and there is a tremendou amount of problem-solving and idea-hatching that goes on during what looks like totally dead time, and THEN he coding and development actually starts to coalesce. 

And yes, I got your point, I just did my usual free-associating thang when you mentioned Applebees, a place I dined in once, and once, it turns out, was sufficient for my lifetime needs.

 

[mayfly]

Manager:  "Hey!! You guys should be working!"
Developer: " - we're compiling!"
Manager: "Oh.  Sorry.  As you were."

 

[amigarobbo]

A couple of years ago, where I worked there was a programmer who would sit there playing solitaire, in plain view of the people who had to deal with the customers phoning in to ask questions/seek support/complain about, among many, many other things, bugs in the software.

He didn't last long.

Anyway, Gibson have bought back the RD Artist! Not Moog electronics, but active and a maple body

Well, a version of it anyway.

:laughing7:

OMG! They've even bought back the volute!  :toothy12:

 

[lkja8uatt33]

Now maybe Warmoth can resume making Gibson style Les Paul bodies and necks. Sorry, I just hate their Regal body shape. No substitute for the Les Paul body.