I'm trying to get started recording...

[exalted]

But there's one thing I don't get, and despite all the reading I do, nothing seems to clarify this...

When I'm recording multiple mics (for example, a drum kit), how do I get each mic to show up as a different track in my recording software? Surely you wouldn't want to apply the same level of compression or noise gates to all the mics.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I want to make sure I grasp the basic concepts before I start to spend money on interfaces and software.

 

[mayfly]

weeel, a lot of recording software/hardware out there only allows you to record 1 or 2 tracks at once.

You need to spend some money on some fairly serious outboard gear and some better-than-the-basics software to get multi-tracking.

 

[exalted]

Okay, that's what I was suspected, I just couldn't find any confirmation of it.

Though apparently Mackie makes a Firewire attachment for their mixers that allows digital multi-tracking. The units themselves are expensive, but it looks like you can pick up the upgraded mixers for cheap on eBay.

 

[tfarny]

I think  your question is specifc to your own hardware and software. My simple setup does stereo recording very easily, but I would need a new I/O to do more than two. If the band ends up buying protools, that'll be the way to go for sure.

 

[exalted]

Well, I was mostly thinking that I would probably want to be apply plugins (compression, noise gates, maybe even reverb) to different parts of the drum set. Maybe I'm thinking out of my price range, or maybe it just isn't necessary.  :dontknow:

The entire process is pretty alien to me.

 

[baskruit]

Check out www.homerecording.com/bbs
It's an awesome source of knowledge.
I've been visiting that site since 2002 and I've done my share of recordings since then.
I can tell you: Decently multitracking for instance a drum kit would roughly set you back the cost of a great Warmoth instrument.

(Recording interface with multiple inputs, microphones, cables, mic stands, recording software, not to mention any room treatment if you choose to go that route).

It can be very rewarding though (not money-wise, but you know what I mean)

 

[Phrygian]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/

 

[jackthehack]

Miking drums for recording can be an art form (or Black Art) all to itself.

On the odd occasions I've done it, I feed all the mikes into a stereo mixer and work with the drummer and my own ears to get all the levels right and just record the mix in one stereo track.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

What you need is a multi channel preamp.  I personally wouldn't go with the firewire mixer.  Get a dedicated preamp, It will be less money and less space on your desk.  My band has been using the Mackie 800R which connects to the computer with ADAT lightpipe (an optical cable but different than S/PDIF) the problem is you need a fancy sound card from the likes of EMU or other more expensive high end companies.  A good idea would probably be (if you're set on mackie) the 1200F  it has 12 channels and connects via FireWire.  Then as stated you need a good DAW program that can differentiate inputs on separate Audio tracks.  We use an ASIO driver and route the inputs in Cubase to Asio 1 in, Asio 2 in etc...  You set them in each channel strip in your DAW.
If you want to go pro-tools I'd recommend getting a nice 8 channel MOTU (motu.com) and Pro Tools LE.  or if you don't want to spend that much money or need that much functionality I'd recommend going with an M-audio 8 channel firewire interface (much like the mackie 800r, but with firewire instead of ADAT lightpipe) and get protools M-Powered.  If you use the MOTU or M-audio solutions it should be pretty easy to set up since digidesign is in bed with both companies currently. (or something like that)

My band is looking into getting the 1200F because you can hook it up to the 800r with the optical cable and use the firewire out and end up utilizing all 20 channels.  That would work really great for live recording.  (sorry for spelling errors, I'm doign this on my netbook)

there are lots of DAW programs to use.  and all have varying prices and functionalities.  If you don't want to buy Cubase 5 for 800 dollars, get cubase essential 5 for somewhere around 300.  Or if you want to do it down and dirty, just download Audacity and use that. although the outcome will be of considerably lower quality.  I dont recommend pro-tools because I don't like the hardware component.  But It really comes down to what you like and what will work for you.

EDIT: Also Jack is right.  I'm just starting to learn the ins and outs of mic-ing and it's a very complicated process.  you have all sorts of phase and spatial relationships to consider, so read up on it and you'll hopefully end up with a better sound than my band did.

 

[jackthehack]

"EDIT: Also Jack is right.  I'm just starting to learn the ins and outs of mic-ing and it's a very complicated process.  you have all sorts of phase and spatial relationships to consider, so read up on it and you'll hopefully end up with a better sound than my band did."

You could probably spend at least a semester studying the subject on the web. While it's hard to see all the mikes, check out the number of mike cables going to Neil Pert's recording studio set up in the picture below.....

If you have a relatively simple home studio setup, using a mixer as I described to mix down to a single stereo track is probably the most simple/easiest way to go.

Another major issue is the individual drummer's control of his own dynamics, they have to be pretty consistent with such or else you have a recording/mixing nightmare, regardless of how you get the sound on the track.

 

[AndyG]

Recording drums is a true art form ... and how many albums does everyone collectively own that are good/bad based on the drum sound?

The biggest problem I've had with recording live drums are expectations.  A band walks in and says "I want my drums to sound like such-and-such album".  Then you find the drummer is playing with 6-month-old skins, the tuning is suspect, there is this horrible "ring" in the snare, etc etc etc.

Modern drum recording techniques are NOTHING like listening to the drums in a room.  Close-micing stuff is the equivilent of having your ear right next to each kitpiece .... not very natural.  The whole idea of seperate mics is control ... being able to bring up that tom fill for a little more OOMPH, or giving that cymbal swell a little flanging for a funky transition ....

The BEST sounding kits are generally 6 (or 7) mics ... kick, snare, stereo overheads, stereo room, and (optionally) hi-hat.  That's how drums were recorded for years.  In the 70's, it was popular to put the tom mics inside the shells from the bottom ... very distinct sound.

As was mentioned in an above post, once you start putting mics everywhere, you can start running into phasing issues.  Some of these can be combatted with gating, but you still have to be careful.  Experimentation is key ... but you are probably better off starting with recording the kit in stereo, and experimenting that way.  Try recording multiple takes with different settings on the mixer (hard drive space is cheap!) 

And, for my money, the best "reverb" is if the drums are recorded in a good-sounding room.

 

[AprioriMark]

Yeah, drums is the hard part.  You really have to ask yourself how you're going to record things, however.  If you're recording everything to a click and adding drums later (or first, whatever), it becomes easier to get good tones but harder to get a good "vibe."  Once you have some experience with this, getting the right "vibe" isn't as hard... though nothing duplicates a live take.

I used some of the first digital recording gear in Western WA state (we had a prototype ADAT loaned to us), and I can tell you firsthand that it's ALL about what works for you to get the sounds you hear in your head.  There are very few "right" ways to do anything, just so long as it's what you want. 

Annnnyway, there are a lot of gear gear recommendations in this thread.  Just make sure your gear gives you the tools to build your sound.  I found that the best drums sounds were made with new heads that were properly stretched, close mics on toms (not right on the head... look at how Neil's drums are mic'd in that picture... you want to have the drummer hit it until you get the "sweet" spot where the tone rings true as well as picking up the attack), two stereo overheads, snare and bass.  Room mics are worthless unless you have an amazing room to begin with.  Just because it has some natural reverb does not making it an amazing room by the way.  Standing waves and 90 degree angles are the devil's work.  No, not the devil who encourages you to grab a girl's ass. I'm talking the kind of devil who makes you drop a bolt down on the exhaust manifold.

So, derail over... just make sure you have hardware that provides you with 8-12 channels for drums if you aren't comfortable pre-mixing or using less mics.

-Mark

 

[Volitions Advocate]

"Where do I put a microphone to record a piano?"

"Where should I put the camera to take a picture of a mountain?"

 

[AndyG]

Just because it has some natural reverb does not making it an amazing room by the way.

True ... if you record in a warehouse with parallel walls, the room mics's aren't gonna sound very good.

However, it's not rocket science to treat a room to help matters.  Heavy curtains on parallel walls will reduce some of the ugliness.  A room that's not devoid of furniture or decorations can also help avoid the "empty apartment" sound.

Personally, I don't like recording drums (or any other instrument, for that matter) in overly "dead" rooms.  To make a comparison, when you see a movie in an old theater (if any still exist) that had the balcony, and ornate woodwork, the sound is almost always 1000 times better than these "treated" multiplex theaters.  Randomness is key.  The more stuff/surfaces the sound is able to bounce off of, the more "natural" the room will sound.  That's why old churches seem to be popular to convert to recording studios.

Having said all that, I do close mic everything.  I'll always put up a couple of room mics, whether I think I'm going to use them or not (options are never a bad thing).  If you have the tracks, use them.  I treat recording the same way a filmmaker treats a shoot ... where you know that only about 60% (or less) of your footage is going to end up in the final product, but that 40% is great to have IN CASE you need it.

 

[AprioriMark]

Just because it has some natural reverb does not making it an amazing room by the way.

True ... if you record in a warehouse with parallel walls, the room mics's aren't gonna sound very good.

However, it's not rocket science to treat a room to help matters.  Heavy curtains on parallel walls will reduce some of the ugliness.  A room that's not devoid of furniture or decorations can also help avoid the "empty apartment" sound.

Personally, I don't like recording drums (or any other instrument, for that matter) in overly "dead" rooms.  To make a comparison, when you see a movie in an old theater (if any still exist) that had the balcony, and ornate woodwork, the sound is almost always 1000 times better than these "treated" multiplex theaters.  Randomness is key.  The more stuff/surfaces the sound is able to bounce off of, the more "natural" the room will sound.  That's why old churches seem to be popular to convert to recording studios.

Having said all that, I do close mic everything.  I'll always put up a couple of room mics, whether I think I'm going to use them or not (options are never a bad thing).  If you have the tracks, use them.  I treat recording the same way a filmmaker treats a shoot ... where you know that only about 60% (or less) of your footage is going to end up in the final product, but that 40% is great to have IN CASE you need it.

Agreed.  I just spent too many years with idiots trying to use room mics because someone told them they were cool.  It was always the same learning curve before they came to their own conclusion that the sounds weren't useable.  Now, I used two wonderfully built rooms where room mic'ing was actually something I did whether or not they asked for it, simply because the spaces sounded wonderful.  I guess I just have this knee-jerk reaction to recording novices trying to make room mic'ing work for an overall sound not built around that sort of drum sound.... in a room that doesn't add anything to the recorded listening experience.

And yes, an old church is still one of the places that I record drums for my own projects.

-Mark

 

[exalted]

This is great info, guys!

There's lots of "how to get started recording" but mostly they mean "how to get started recording if you're already recording". I have a much better idea of what I'll be getting into thanks to you all.

 

[AndyG]

One final note on drum recording ....

As a general guideline (by no means a rule), ceiling height will make the biggest difference to the sound of your room.  Standard building practice puts ceilings at 8 or 9 feet, and the best sounding rooms I've ever used have had at least 12 foot ceilings.  Most of the ugly reflections happen between the floor and ceiling (the 2 most obvious parallel surfaces) anyway.

So when you're looking for a room to record your drums in, don't be too concerend about area, its VOLUME that matters (pun intended!)   :doh: