How many pieces are Warmoth Strat bodies in general?

[swarfrat]

Yeah, if I weren't in the middle of a project and in "austerity mode" (and about three or four projects down the list of what I want to build) - those strat bodies with the battery compartments a few months ago were so so tempting.

 

[Schneidas]

FWIW, here's their answer to this:

Yes, for bodies we build for the showcase there can be multiple piece bodies... there are also some bodies that have unsightly grains and "ugly" spots... these bodies will get an opaque finish. They will also be discounted appropriately. Custom build orders are either one or two piece bodies (excluding laminated top or chambered bodies)... but they are also not discounted.

Now.... does this mean that the multi piece bodies are lacking in quality or materials... NO.... all of our wood is treated the same and all of the bodies are finished with the same quality as custom build bodies. If it is a bad piece of wood it is discarded simple as that.

For what it's worth... my main Silver Flake Strat came off the showcase it's a chambered ash Strat and is likely at least 5 pieces considering a 3 piece back and a book-matched laminate top..... wow that's a lot of glue... must sound dead..... Uh nope... most lively Strat I've ever owned....


Sounds good! At least I feel a little better...

 

[Orpheo]

3 les pauls of mine are 2 piece bodies: 1 piece top, 1 piece back.

6 les pauls of mine are 3 piece bodies. 2 piece top, 1 piece back

4 les pauls of mine are 4 piece bodies: 2 piece top, 2 piece back

any degradation of soundquality on the last category, compared with the first? not really. they sound different, and they're not my 'grab and go' guitars, since their woods are so difficult to work with (tonally). but they sound great on any level, anyway.

my point? warmoth makes great stuff. can't imagine playing something else.

 

[Schneidas]

Are these all Warmoth Les Pauls?

So you got a total of 13 Les Pauls??? Oh boy! You need at least one more!!!  :toothy12:

How come the 4-piece LP are more difficult to work with compared to their 3- and 2-piece counterparts?
Or is it just that the 4-piece ones have different wood combos than the others?

 

[grabby]

How can you tell it is 5 pieces? I think we really need pics to understand the dynamic here...

 

[whitebison66]

Can anyone reference any quantifiable basis for the 'glue kills sustain' concept? I hear it said all the time but I have never seen any kind of mechanical/scientific proof of it.

Apologies in advance for starting the arguments, but as the bank robber said to Harry Callahan, "I gots to know..."

 

[Cagey]

Can anyone reference any quantifiable basis for the 'glue kills sustain' concept? I hear it said all the time but I have never seen any kind of mechanical/scientific proof of it.

Apologies in advance for starting the arguments, but as the bank robber said to Harry Callahan, "I gots to know..."

It's so obvious, it rarely gets questioned in real life. But, if you'd like to prove it yourself, simply take a piece of 3/4" plywood and a 3/4" thick piece of any species of solid hardwood of the same dimensions, and give them a knock. You'll easily hear how dead the ply is versus the solid piece. You don't even need a "trained ear" or anything. A child could hear it. It's an old trick that's been used for many years in other applications where sound deadening is desirable. Luxury cars even do it with their firewalls, laminating two pieces of steel to kill any transmission of sound from the engine/transmission to the interior, and that's steel rather than wood. Laminations are vibration killers.

On the plus side, they're also usually stiffeners, adding strength out of proportion to their thickness. That's why sometimes it's done with long necks, such as on basses. It's also why plywood makes better shelves and speaker cabinets than solid pieces of wood. You always want to use ply for those applications, then if you want a beauty finish, you make the outside ply/edges out of a beauty wood.

 

[drewfx]

Can anyone reference any quantifiable basis for the 'glue kills sustain' concept? I hear it said all the time but I have never seen any kind of mechanical/scientific proof of it.

That's because it's wrong.

Not all glues are the same, but if the glue dries hard, it transmits sound much better than any wood could, especially high frequencies. And there is really very little glue actually involved anyway. It's more likely that just having more than one piece of wood causes more problems than the glue itself.

But people like to believe stuff...

 

[Dan025]

martin make laminated bolt on necks now, it is so many thin laminations that it could be called plywood but the grains all run in the same direction and so do the laminations, also gibson is making laminated sg bodies. cagey im not sure you can compare firewalls to guitar bodies, metal is a pliable, malleable, ductile  material, hardwood may be malleable and possibly pliable if it is moist but it is not really a good comparison. wood is full of voids and and open grains that can act as sound passages, metal doesn't. also plywood is not a fair comparison to large pieces of hardwood laminated together. the grain direction alternates in plywood and is thin sheets, i think the alternating grain direction is possibly the sonic killer in that situation.

laminations can be designed to kill vibrations certainly that is true but i think if the laminations run along the grains and the glue is hard then there is little of no issue. im still undecided about things like neck joints but definately dont feel that a set neck is superior, not sure about inferior.

 

[Cagey]

Can anyone reference any quantifiable basis for the 'glue kills sustain' concept? I hear it said all the time but I have never seen any kind of mechanical/scientific proof of it.

That's because it's wrong.

Not all glues are the same, but if the glue dries hard, it transmits sound much better than any wood could, especially high frequencies. And there is really very little glue actually involved anyway. It's more likely that just having more than one piece of wood causes more problems than the glue itself.

That's exactly right. A good glue, such as Titebond II, will join two pieces of wood so well that if you try to break them apart, you'll break the wood before you'll break the glue joint. But, the misalignment of the wood grain is a pretty effective barrier to vibration transmission, so you end up with a dead piece of wood, tone-wise.

Fortunately, it makes little difference on electric guitars. There is a difference, but it's negligible. But, you'll never see it on better acoustics, where wood vibration is everything. That's why you never see laminated tops or sides on those - they'd be dead as wet cardboard. They always use solid spruce tops, and solid mahogany/cedar/rosewood/etc. for the sides and back. It makes them expensive, but I doubt you'll ever hear anybody complain about the tone of a Taylor or Martin acoustic.

 

[Cagey]

martin make laminated bolt on necks now, it is so many thin laminations that it could be called plywood but the grains all run in the same direction and so do the laminations, also gibson is making laminated sg bodies.

Unlike an electric, the neck has less to do with an acoustic's tone than it's body does. With an acoustic, you want all the vibration to happen in the body. So, a super-stiff neck is a Good Thing, and it's contribution to tone is to isolate it to the body.

 

[Nightclub Dwight]

Can anyone reference any quantifiable basis for the 'glue kills sustain' concept? I hear it said all the time but I have never seen any kind of mechanical/scientific proof of it.

That's because it's wrong.

Not all glues are the same, but if the glue dries hard, it transmits sound much better than any wood could, especially high frequencies. And there is really very little glue actually involved anyway. It's more likely that just having more than one piece of wood causes more problems than the glue itself.

That's exactly right. A good glue, such as Titebond II, will join two pieces of wood so well that if you try to break them apart, you'll break the wood before you'll break the glue joint. But, the misalignment of the wood grain is a pretty effective barrier to vibration transmission, so you end up with a dead piece of wood, tone-wise.

Fortunately, it makes little difference on electric guitars. There is a difference, but it's negligible. But, you'll never see it on better acoustics, where wood vibration is everything. That's why you never see laminated tops or sides on those - they'd be dead as wet cardboard. They always use solid spruce tops, and solid mahogany/cedar/rosewood/etc. for the sides and back. It makes them expensive, but I doubt you'll ever hear anybody complain about the tone of a Taylor or Martin acoustic.

However, most Taylor, Martin and other high end acoustic guitars use two piece top and backs.  Yes its a solid piece of wood, but in most instances its two bookmatched pieces joined together (with glue).

I don't have the answers to this question, just pointing out this fact and adding fuel to the fire.

 

[JaySwear]

I think my Telecaster Deluxe body is a 2 or 3 piece. Not sure. And not completely related to the topic, but the reason I can tell it's a 2 or 3 piece is because Warmoth's finishes are so thin I can see the woodgrain through the solid paint. Gotta love it! Not that the paint doesn't cover, but if you look really closely you can see the joints between the body pieces.

 

[Schneidas]

How can you tell it is 5 pieces? I think we really need pics to understand the dynamic here...

I didn't say it is 5 pieces. I said it is at least 4 pieces. 4 different pieces I can see when I look at the exposed wood in the HSH-rout.
But there's a large area that is covered with paint and I suspect there might be another glue seam hiding in there.
In any case - 4 or 5 pieces doesn't matter - it might as well be 7 or 9 pieces. To me it matters that it is more than 3 pieces.

You need pics to see what? It's been confirmed by Warmoth that they also use 4 and 5-piece bodies, paint them solid and sell thme in the Showcase.
I made my peace with the fact that I got a body made of at least 4 pieces...
Am I happy with the fact that I thought I was buying 1, 2 or 3 pieces and got more? No, because there was no note on that showcase body stating anything like that. Nomatter how cool I think the glow in the dark finish is, I would not have bought the body, had I known that it was more than 3 pieces. It is a psychological kind of thing.
In the end, all that matters is if it will sound good and feel alive.

 

[mgaut051]

Put your money where your mouth is - Warmoth has a satisfaction guarantee.
I just think it's childish to say

I didn't say it is 5 pieces. I said it is at least 4 pieces. 4 different pieces I can see when I look at the exposed wood in the HSH-rout.
Am I happy with the fact that I thought I was buying 1, 2 or 3 pieces and got more? No, because there was no note on that showcase body stating anything like that. Nomatter how cool I think the glow in the dark finish is, I would not have bought the body, had I known that it was more than 3 pieces. It is a psychological kind of thing.
In the end, all that matters is if it will sound good and feel alive.

You say all that matters is sound, but that you wouldn't have bought it if you had known... I'm confused.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Just to throw in, just for shits 'n' giggles really.

I've had two main Les Pauls in my life. One was a 2008 Gibson Custom Shop 1959 VOS Reissue. 1-piece mahogany back (solid), bookmatched maple top, 1-piece mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard; five pieces of wood in total. The other is a 2004 Epiphone Joe Perry Boneyard Les Paul. 3-piece heavily chambered ''mahogany'' body, 2-piece maple top with a flame maple veneer, ''mahogany'' neck made out of what looks like four pieces and a fairly low quality rosewood fretboard; in total 10 pieces of wood, 11 if you count the veneer. Both guitars had the same pickups (Gibson BurstBuckers), the same value pots (+/-10% of course), the same capacitors, same jacks, toggle switches, bridges and tuners. The only other differences between them were the finish type (poly vs nitro) and the nut (hollow plastic vs bone).

Under typical playing conditons, they would both sustain any given note for almost exactly the same time; roughly 8 seconds before tailing off over about 3 seconds. Tone-wise the Gibson was ever so slightly brighter, but this is probably more due to the solid construction compared to the chambered Epiphone, rather than the number of pieces of wood.

Of course there was a big jump in quality between them, but in a blind sound test you'd be hard-pressed to spot the difference, especially at gig volumes and with any degree of distortion.

The longest-sustaining instrument I have is a LTD H-1001. Set neck, 3- or 4-piece body not including whatever the carved top is and the thickest poly finish you've ever seen. Sustains a fretted note with no vibrato for about 14 seconds before tailing off in about 4 seconds. The actual tone though does sound somewhat dampened.


So... well, there you go. If I can get a 1- or 2-piece body then I always will as it's a nice thing to have and leaves no room for doubt, but I know from the guitars that are sat next to me right now that a 3- or 4-piece body isn't anything to be scared of. I would assume a 5-piece body would not be much worse, if at all.

 

[Schneidas]

Put your money where your mouth is - Warmoth has a satisfaction guarantee.

You say all that matters is sound, but that you wouldn't have bought it if you had known... I'm confused.

I'll gladly relieve you of your confusion.
I am a perfectionist, a musician and a tone lover. One could argue, that a single piece of wood will vibrate stronger and better than the same piece of wood cut up in 20 pieces and glued back together.
That is my logic. The less pieces - the better I feel. You're free to call it childish.
Guitars of higher value are usually constructed out of 1, 2 or 3 pieces.
See Gibson Les Pauls. They have a one-piece back, and a 2-piece top. Now that Gibson started using 2-piece backs as well - making a body out of a total of 4 pieces - many have critisized them for doing this. Hardcore LP purists don't buy the 2 piece bodies.

Anyway, I love buying the highest quality possible. That's why I buy Warmoth stuff and also at other palces that have high quality. To me, the highest quality is a body out of a single piece of wood. The second highest quality I would buy is a 2-piecer and the third would be a 3-piecer. Anything more, I wouldn't buy as I'm uncomfortable with it - nomatter how good the wood is claimed to be.

I didn't know at the time I bought it - and yes I could have sent it back. But I live in Europe and had to pay quite a bit of import fees. So I figured to keep it. If it sounds good and vibrates as alive as the best Strat bodies of mine (which are all 1 or 2 pieces), I'll be happy with it and forget about it. As I said - I was not happy - but I made my peace with it.

 

[Schneidas]

Just to throw in, just for shitees 'n' giggles really.

So... well, there you go. If I can get a 1- or 2-piece body then I always will as it's a nice thing to have and leaves no room for doubt, but I know from the guitars that are sat next to me right now that a 3- or 4-piece body isn't anything to be scared of. I would assume a 5-piece body would not be much worse, if at all.

Yeah bro. I'm not disagreeing!
As I said - it's a (stupid) psychological kind of thing.

It's like the Nitro vs Poly finish.Given, that both are thinly apllied, although probably no one can hear a difference (except Eric Johnson) - people just feel better knowing that their instrument has a Nitro finish.

I feel better with less pieces of wood.
Call it insecurity - I guess I'm an insecure kind of a person  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Orpheo]

Are these all Warmoth Les Pauls?

So you got a total of 13 Les Pauls??? Oh boy! You need at least one more!!!  :toothy12:

How come the 4-piece LP are more difficult to work with compared to their 3- and 2-piece counterparts?
Or is it just that the 4-piece ones have different wood combos than the others?

yeah, I have that much warmoth les pauls actually, I have 14 warmoth les pauls, of which one is a flattop (gift from a friend), and I need to finish that one. I have a grand total of 21 les pauls, of which 2 are gibsons, 14 are warmoths, 3 are crimson guitar-les pauls, 2 are something different. this year alone I will get 2 more (quilt maple/korina, purpleheart neck, floyd and koa/walnut, bubinga neck, floyd, both ebony boards)

I have (let me think) 2 or 3 les pauls with 4 pieces. one is a 2 piece 5A grade flamed maple top on a 2 piece flamed korina back. the other is a 2 piece Koa top on a 2 piece walnut back. the first had a rosewood neck+fingerboard, the other a ziricote neck and ebony board.

the first has a hipshot trem, the other a kahler.

they're difficult to work with, meaning, not every pickup sounds good in that guitar! the woodcombinations work in a peculiar way, giving them distinct, but unique voicings. it took me 4 years just to find the right pickup, to match the tone I was hearing acoustically, and in my head.

but now I'm having the right pickups, these guitars are one of my favorites.

For the record, they're all like my 'children'. but these 2, and the singlepiece-top-les pauls are my favorites.

when I will have those other 2 les pauls, with the quilt maple top finished in purplemist, and the koa in a slight tobaccoburst (without the black), with an amber stain on the walnut, both with a faux binding ala PRS, I won't be able to figure out what I want next. Yeah, 2 more. zebrano on mahongany, finished in mary kaye white, and the other will be a lacewood top on korina back, in cherryburst.

and why les pauls? because they're the hottest looking guitars, in the world. PERIOD.

and why warmoth? because they make the best guitars in the world. PERIOD.

 

[back2thefutre]

Huh