Hot pups or great pedals?

migetkotla

Junior Member
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For a while it seemed like the guitar pickup world leaned more and more toward warm/hot pickups in order to create a beautiful vintage distorted tone.  Now, it seems like many guitar players recommend very clean pickups (low output) and then rely almost exclusively on their pedals and the amp tubes to create the vintage sound (or really any guitar tone resembling distorted tone or classic rock).

What's your preference?  Warmer pickups or reliance on pedals and amplifier settings?  Both?
My limited experience is by using the lower output pickups we can still really get into funk and R&B and other clean tones and then when necessary or desired use pedals and tube amps to create classic rock tones. 

I'd appreciate any recommendations you have and any comments!
 
Low to medium output pickups preferred. Modern amplifiers and modelers have plenty gain on tap. Sounds better that way IMO.
 
In general, overwinding makes a pickup sound bad. I've never understand the fascination that so many people have with overwinding. It's not as if you can't get more output fifty different ways. It used to be that you had more limited options to push amps into overdrive, but that is not the case in the modern world, where everything can give you gain.
 
I've never really liked the high output pups either. I'd much rather have something sweet and clean, and let the downstream hardware handle the drive.
 
Well one thing to consider Is that prior to hot pickups being available is most classic tones were made with usually fairly standard pickups and not always reliable kit.

Volume was responsible for a lot of tones and whatever the engineers did with the studio gear. Think Eddie Kramer with Led Zeppelin and Hendrix, or Martin Birch, Deep Purples Machine Head, and Made in Japan.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to some of this stuff, but there's just a lot more choice nowadays to get to similar results. And of course personal preferences...
 
line6man said:
In general, overwinding makes a pickup sound bad. I've never understand the fascination that so many people have with overwinding. It's not as if you can't get more output fifty different ways. It used to be that you had more limited options to push amps into overdrive, but that is not the case in the modern world, where everything can give you gain.

It's true; over-winding pickups causes cancer. It's also true that playing guitar causes stupidity. I mean, ask yourself. Have I done anything stupid since I took up guitar? If you say "no", you're just lying to yourself. The dog won't tell, but only because it doesn't speak English. If the world understood slobber and eye rolls, you'd be in deep shit and more people would be willing to pet the French.

Over-winding pickups is a hangover from the bad ol' days when low-gain non-master volume amps roamed the Earth and overdrive pedals were pretty thin on the ground. Practically non-existent, in fact. These days, you're right - you don't need 'em. But, they do have a character to them so sometimes you want 'em. Want and need aren"t as different as they used to be
 
I’m with the consensus here.  You can get a lot of mileage out of a PAF-based pickup.  As far as OD/Distortion pedals go, I prefer getting it from the amp instead, although I can see the need to sometime supplement one with the other.  I probably haven’t found an OD/Distortion pedal that I liked enough, and yes I know there’s 11.24 bazillion models out there.

What’s always been ironic to me is the number of cork-sniffing tube amp die-hards who won’t even blink when they place a silicone or germanium-based grunt box in the front of their signal chain.       
 
I'll go semicontrarian even though my pickups tend to be not blistering hot. A lot of guitar tones that we have come to love are a product of those bad old days. I also think high gain stuff which is generating a lot of harmonics can benefit from a controlled treble (and bass) input source. There are other ways to control that, but simple tone controls don't affect the resonance peak in the same way as a tone control does.

Basically, there's something to be said for using gear SIMILAR to what you're trying to emulate was recorded with.

That said, I'll go back to banging on my 4.8k GFS Memphis when the kid wakes up.
 
Neo Fender said:
What’s always been ironic to me is the number of cork-sniffing tube amp die-hards who won’t even blink when they place a silicone or germanium-based grunt box in the front of their signal chain.     

Hehe! Yeah. I just had a conversation recently with an old-school player who made the same point. "Why fight with a 150lb tube amp you can't trust when you have $2000 worth of transistors and microprocessors feeding it? Defeats the purpose."
 
This is a debate I am utterly unqualified to engage in, but hell, it's the internet, so here's a bit of anecdotal blather:


I have owned exactly four outboard effects in my thirty-five year guitar-playing history:  A Korg chorus pedal, a Yamaha flanger, a DOD "American Metal" distortion pedal, and a Roland rackmount delay from circa the mid-1980's.  The only one I miss is the DOD pedal, which I used as a clean boost by dialing the gain way down and turning up the level.  It was a fun way to goose my preamp.


Today I have a Fender Mustang III, which is a fun and versatile "toy" amp, with a variety of built-in effects, none of which is amazing but all of which suffice for my knob-twiddling impulses.  Despite its capacity to make all manner of weird and sometimes beautiful noises, it doesn't sound like what I want to sound like when I play.  My tastes have really gotten quite distant from my fantasies involving playing solos with a big, wet, chorusy-delayed before arena crowds.  I use the Vox-emulator, and the various cleanish Fender classic emulations, but rarely much more than a little reverb or amp tremolo for effects. 


I also had a Cyber-Twin for about five minutes, but it was a very noisy specimen and I kicked it to the curb.  It, too, was fun, but not really my bag.


Anyway - mostly I play a tube-driven combo because it works for me.  I don't gig, I don't travel, and I play acoustic about two-thirds of the time, so I don't have to change tubes all the time.  The sounds I get are the sounds I like.  'Nuff said.


To sum up:  I have nothing good or bad to say about effects pedals per se.  I just know that they don't currently figure in my concept of what I want to sound like.


As for pickups:  Well, I've played weak pickups, medium output pickups, and super-strength pickups, and my preference generally is for something weaker to medium-output - although not as weak as the sorry-ass pickups that used to be in my Peavey strat clone.  Unlike the issue of higher frequencies in your signal, where more is better because you can always attenuate it via carefully chosen capacitor, I am not a fan of pure loudness from my pickups.  I feel like you can (almost) always add more by boosting the signal, but taking away is hard.  Things tend to get sludgy with really hot pickups even at lower gain, and I really like being able to hear all the notes in the chords most of the time.  The exception is that some higher-output single coils (Duncan Quarter Pound, or P90's) really float my boat, but as I suggest above, higher output humbuckers almost always overdo it.


MY opinion,  and worth every penny you paid for it.
 
Wolfie351 said:
Medium Output Pickups + High Gain Amp = Happy Wolfie

Haven't used distortion pedals in years

I guess I should have said this is because I have some nice amps.  If I were a 16 year old kid still using a no-name beginner amp, I'd probably have a pedal or two.
 
The world I grew up in said thin necks and hot pickups was where it's at.

The more I play with other people whose sound I like, it's less is more.  Medium to low output pickups, a good lower wattage amp (50 watts or lower), minimal pedals - usually a boost, wah, and delay.  Lighter guitars too.  Not quite basswood featherweight light, but despite the myths, there are light Les Pauls and light Teles made of ash.

Rolling a volume knob off can clean up a gritty sound, and the boost can drive it to dirty.  Mega gain for anything but metal sounds like a buzz saw.  Pair that sound with a guy that can't play rhythm, I'm leaving.
 
I like medium-output pickups. I think that if you need a pedal to get enough punch out of your amp, your pickup is too weak (like the Dimarzio HS-3 -- it's so weak that Yngwie has a preamp pedal on at all times).

With that said, a good distortion pedal is useful for a Lead-boost, or for a soft, bluesy type of overdrive. With modern guitar amplifiers, I just can't understand why so may players use super high-output pickups, as it is just totally unnecessary.
 
I bought a Telecaster Special (actually, the least special of the USA Tele's) with Texas Special pickups. The neck pickup was nice, but I never liked the bridge pickup, even though I had a Pod HD500 to ring the changes.

I installed the Fender '52 re-issue bridge pickup and all of a sudden it was the sound of rock and roll. It sounds great clean and is also a good basis for classic overdriven sounds.
 
Give it another 10-15 years for the current trend to play out and we'll be pining for vintage invaders, JB's, and Super Distortions.
 
I always go for more of a vintage wind on pups and let the amp do the work, like our mentors did.
 
swarfrat said:
Give it another 10-15 years for the current trend to play out and we'll be pining for vintage invaders, JB's, and Super Distortions.

People are already pining for vintage JBs and Super Distortions. They claim that the new ones don't sound like the old ones.

But yeah, in time, those "vintage" Invaders will probably be the next big thing.
 
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