bigguspickus
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a bush, eh?
gripe of the week(update: AKA im an idiot)
- Thread starter Dan025
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The Norwegian Guy
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BUSH
Dan025 said:
I'm gonna say this... get a whoopin', but here it goes.
In the machining world, there is the expertise of art as well as science. What separates the two is the experience of the person doing the work. Two maxims we use in mold making industry are "if you can hold it, you can cut it" and "dont cut it to the size you want it to be, but the size you want it to become". The first emphasizing that fixturing is the key to successful metal cutting operations, even when the operation is simple. You cannot add stress in holding the object, and in cases where you cannot adequately hold the workpiece, then you have to do your best and make repeated very light cuts. The second being, that not only do parts throw from the mold in sizes that are different from the mold, but the mold itself will change as soon as you use it. You cut it to the size it will be under use, and also, as an extension of that idea, to the size that will throw correct parts in a production environment.
In my own specialty of electronic and applied technology service, I've hired four ex-military men. No personal offense, but I've had to depro, devo and retrain each of them. I hired them because the test I gave them required original thinking, not having black and white, right or wrong answers. They all had the core of a good employee - a brain, and the ability to use it, think on their feet as well. Yes, they take the test standing up, and its timed. For every thinker, there were 20 or more that were what I call "script kiddies", who, like rats, eventually learned their way through a particular maze, but who had no non-military working environment skills whatsoever. I short, I could have given a crap about what they did, learned or became in the military. What I wanted to see was what they could bring to me that would produce results with my customers, get the job done, adapt to a highly fluid working condition, and attitude, attitude, attitude.
Dont expect to start anyplace but on the bottom end. Do expect, that with hard work, proper communication skills, and perseverance, and proper attitude, you can work your way up to a better position.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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Well Dan, w/out getting overly deep and symbolic, I don't believe everything happens for a reason. I don't believe a door opens when one closes.
I do however believe that staying somewhere where you're un-happy is not good for anything or anyone. To stay there anylonger would have been a waste of time. That 5 months could've easily turned into 15 years. Apparently you were overworked, overqualified, underpayed, and underappreciated. That wasn't going to change, as evident in the seniority vs. experience vs. education vs. payscale practices of the management and other employees. Good riddance to them.
You're next step may be a little tricky, but it sounds like you have a few leads that can keep the light bill paid in the mean time. Don't let these next 90 days turn into 5 months somewhere else.
I do however believe that staying somewhere where you're un-happy is not good for anything or anyone. To stay there anylonger would have been a waste of time. That 5 months could've easily turned into 15 years. Apparently you were overworked, overqualified, underpayed, and underappreciated. That wasn't going to change, as evident in the seniority vs. experience vs. education vs. payscale practices of the management and other employees. Good riddance to them.
You're next step may be a little tricky, but it sounds like you have a few leads that can keep the light bill paid in the mean time. Don't let these next 90 days turn into 5 months somewhere else.
=CB= said:
all great CB and you are very respected by myself and others, the issues were A) that the customers dont like red marks on any cmm reports. even the first operation and even if it comes back into the proper range. B) not running the second operation meant i could not compare a CMM report from my own operation to the milling operation, C) i did not have adjustability on the problem dimension other than through the tool offset which would have caused a problem with the other features the tool cut, D) i was not allowed to edit dimensions in the program.
I understand what you are saying completely, really i do, that's the main problem, my boss's didn't, i tried to offer solutions and my boss would come back with the question "do you need more training on this job?" i was flat out ignored.
i also understand the original thinking test and what you are saying about many military trained people as well, when you train hundreds of people a year to do a job and only one or two of them have even seen or had an interest in that kind of work beforehand you'll get alot of "script kiddies"
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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Joey, that's a big bush.
Oh you are so so right!
When you get to multiple operations - either one-off or production, somebody has to call the shots, and if that person is a clueless paper pusher... then you have some real issues.
In the mold making world that my work has had the happy circumstance of being tied to, one man does the mold start to finish. He does not get a blueprint of the mold. Instead, he gets a blueprint of the part that the mold must throw. Often, he just gets a one off of the part, and has to determine all the sizes himself.... and... sometimes its a mix of "specified sizes" and the rest is fairly loose. Either way, that man does it start to finish, he knows what he's got to do by experience, or... he says to himself, that thing is liable to go tight (or loose) on me due to shrinkage (or expansion), and finds a way to give himself a plan B, just in case.
In production though... somebody has got to work the piece through the various shops and various fixtures, and see that the production dimensions are such that the final size is within tolerance. In one way, that could a form of master-piecing a part, with all production deviation accounted for.
Makes me think of my old friend Andre, who had the fortunate misfortune of making doors for IBM's SEDAB shop cabinets. Actually, he did the cabinets too, but the doors were a royal pain in the butt. They spec'd them to be made of some laminated wood (probably oak) have inset "magnetic rubber" strips, and the hinges were such that the final door size had to be held to about .010. <---- Do that with wood on a door 24 inches wide, I dare ya! It finally got to the point that Andre asked them to build him multiple extensions for his 12" dial caliper, and to hold thier shop temperature (and thereby humidity) constant, so he could match his shop to that. I vividly recall his day of acceptance, because he ran the doors down to them, about 15 miles, in his station wagon, all wrapped in plastic, and had them gauge the doors on the spot. They passed. I think he told me that he charged them three times what they normally would be, then doubled THAT twice, because he knew... there'd be issues. Andy helped invent centimetric radar at MIT at the onset of WWII hostilities. Sadly he's passed to that big shop in the sky.
If the bossman is a doofus, ya gotta either set him right, or find a better shop my friend. Or... go way way out and start your own (VERY hard to do)
When you get to multiple operations - either one-off or production, somebody has to call the shots, and if that person is a clueless paper pusher... then you have some real issues.
In the mold making world that my work has had the happy circumstance of being tied to, one man does the mold start to finish. He does not get a blueprint of the mold. Instead, he gets a blueprint of the part that the mold must throw. Often, he just gets a one off of the part, and has to determine all the sizes himself.... and... sometimes its a mix of "specified sizes" and the rest is fairly loose. Either way, that man does it start to finish, he knows what he's got to do by experience, or... he says to himself, that thing is liable to go tight (or loose) on me due to shrinkage (or expansion), and finds a way to give himself a plan B, just in case.
In production though... somebody has got to work the piece through the various shops and various fixtures, and see that the production dimensions are such that the final size is within tolerance. In one way, that could a form of master-piecing a part, with all production deviation accounted for.
Makes me think of my old friend Andre, who had the fortunate misfortune of making doors for IBM's SEDAB shop cabinets. Actually, he did the cabinets too, but the doors were a royal pain in the butt. They spec'd them to be made of some laminated wood (probably oak) have inset "magnetic rubber" strips, and the hinges were such that the final door size had to be held to about .010. <---- Do that with wood on a door 24 inches wide, I dare ya! It finally got to the point that Andre asked them to build him multiple extensions for his 12" dial caliper, and to hold thier shop temperature (and thereby humidity) constant, so he could match his shop to that. I vividly recall his day of acceptance, because he ran the doors down to them, about 15 miles, in his station wagon, all wrapped in plastic, and had them gauge the doors on the spot. They passed. I think he told me that he charged them three times what they normally would be, then doubled THAT twice, because he knew... there'd be issues. Andy helped invent centimetric radar at MIT at the onset of WWII hostilities. Sadly he's passed to that big shop in the sky.
If the bossman is a doofus, ya gotta either set him right, or find a better shop my friend. Or... go way way out and start your own (VERY hard to do)
you always have the best stories, my friend louis is a retired tool and die maker, we like talking about machining and things. he made some things for ibm in the past, things he needed microscopes for, but that stuff is all gone he says. he showed me bills to companies for 60,000 dollars, for one job! crazy! now $15 dollars an hour is tough to find. louis could pay his guys $60 in the 80's. well those guys did jobs that i havent even been exposed to, i dont even know where to look for jobs making molds, and if i did id be happy to start on the bottom.
