gripe of the week(update: AKA im an idiot)

[Dan025]

so ive been working at my job for a while now, the company policy is to hire on temp status with no benifits or holidays for 90 days then hire/fire the person. im working as a CNC operator, i had previously worked in the military as a fabricator with 25 weeks of classes 9 hrs a day 5 days a week, 1 year on job training, 5 volumes of CDC's each volume was 200 pages or so (books pertaining to my military career that i am tested on after i complete them) an additional 3 weeks of classes 7 hours a day 5 days a week. with all this training and not to mention 4 years work experience fabrication repair and inspection on aircraft and additional experience building racing engines i expected to go in there and get spun up on the machine controls they use and get prepared to be a supervisor or at least somewhere in the middle.

so far i have been stuck with a pain in the ass job for the whole time with no communication, if something is bad in the final they tell me oh if you have trouble go ask bob or vinny, im thinking "hey dumb ass check my CMM and inspection reports the dimensions were good when i was finished with them, if something is bad i need to see the final inspection so i know how to manipulate things to be good in the final." the difficulty is that im working with a titanium forging full of internal stresses that is put through a coating procedure that creates heat and more stresses, I do the first machining operation removing a large amount of material on a lathe leaving a thin wall allowing the stresses to alter the dimensions of the part, as the machine heats up the dimensions that it cuts change, when i go to lunch it cools and change again. after i do my operation it goes to milling, more material removed dimensions change again do to both internal stresses and just physical forces applied, then they go into another lathe operation, then final inspection where they expect the dimensions to be the same as they were when i did my operation.

ive been working this job for damn near 150 days and they still haven't made the decision for permanent hire, i work the same position as a couple 19yo kids fresh from high school, i only get paid more because i am willing to work the night shift. they both have become permanent employees with paid time off, holidays, health benefits, dental plan, and company uniforms and i have not.

no steps have been taken to train me for a better position, no classes on company proceedures, im actually lowwer than guys with no experience who work jobs that are less difficult. im respectful to my bosses, i do what they ask, i never call in sick, i show up on time, i show interest in improving procedures. WTF i make less than i did in the military and there i had full benifits and people asked me for help because they knew i was intelligent. i worked jobs above my pay grade, i won awards for saving airframes from scrap, engines from million dollar overhauls prematurely, but in the working force im treated like crap. this is the only company that would hire me, noone understands what the things mean that they ask the candidates, its a big joke. everyone around me calls themselves a machinist and i resent it. they dont know feeds and speeds and chip clearance and horsepower, they dont know hardness, they dont know part deflection and tool deflection, temper conditions, metal aging, cryogenic treating, solution heat treating, grain structures, crystalline structures, alloying elements and what they do to the base metal, currie temperature in steel, recalescence, decalescence, annealing, normalizing, sphereodizing, stress relieving, carberizing, decarberization, hydrogen embrittlement, ammonia gas nitriding, salt bath nitriding, casting, hand forging, tool grinding, rake and relief angles, helix angles, systems of fit, threading, proper squaring proceedure, they dont know trigonometry, geometry and geometric construction hell half the guys are lucky if they set the offsets in the right direction. all the decision making is done by the programmers and ill bet i can stump any one of them. parts come out bad because the whole process is just plain wrong.

why cant anyone see what im worth, im an educated experienced fabricator. i know machines, i am a certified welder, i certified with a similar test to what steam fitter do but i did it on mild steel, titanium, aluminum, magnisium, cobalt alloys, stainless steal, and high temperature nickel alloys such as inconel. why is it this hard to get this information through the thick skulls of employers and supervisors. resumes and interviews are useless. maybe blunt force trauma would work better.

 

[kboman]

Well you're clearly too good for these schmucks. Move on! Life is too important for frustration.

 

[Alfang]

I've been an electrician for 24 years now, I was prior millitary, I love getting prior millitary on my crews, they are dependable, know how to work, know how to communicate, know how to treat other people, and on and on.

If I ever start my own business, I would hire an ex military guy with a few less credentials than a non prior service guy, because I know what I am gonna get from that guy, loyalty, honor, code, patriotic, trainable, etc...

Dan, I know how you feel. If they don't see it, it's their loss. Or maybe your imediate boss sees it, and is scared you might take his job.

Or maybe your making cadilacs, and they want pintos, good luck keep us informed.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

I work at a company that doesn't care one whit about what I can do for them.

I expressed interest in schooling for drafting to become a detailer.  Then 6 months later they hired a couple of mexican guys straight out of mexico to do the job instead.
I fabricate Rebar.  Been doing it for about 3 years now.  They've got this huge contract for wind turbine bases. over 50 of them and they want about 2 done a week.  about 200,000 lbs a week.  There are 3 of us fabricating.
We're supposed to be able to do this (we personally handle about 80% or more of the material one piece at a time) apparently.

I was laid off last summer for 10 months because the company couldn't afford to keep me because they knew I was going back to school, when they coudl've saved 3 times my wage in electrical bills by putting in a simple 200 dollar pressure switch into the air line of the big air compressor that runs our machines.  The pressure switch woudl signal the air dryer to shut off, allowing the the pressure int he tank to remain without dumping every 5 minutes.  So now STILL after more than 2 years that air compressor still runs 18 hours a day. rather than 2 at irregular intervals.

I work with a guy who has been there for 10 years,  he actually made it up front after about 6 to do drafting but decided to come back outside and do the manual work to get away from the idiots in the front office.

Some companies just don't listen and just don't care.  I would say calmly sit down with a superior and explain your concerns, and if they don't do anything about it.. take their paycheques and start looking again.  Because you can't afford to have the frustration in your life, It eats away at you.

.. on that note... off I go to work.  ... 5 more weeks till school

 

[erogenousjones17]

...you can't afford to have the frustration in your life, It eats away at you.

So true. I don't believe for a second this crap about having to slave away at a job you hate. If you've got to do something every day for 35 years, it damn well better not be a drag. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere Dan. Best of luck, though it sounds like you're in a pretty good position to find work (what with your skill set and qualifications).  :icon_thumright:

 

[lafromla1]

I have noticed that if you don't go to management and request some answers, albeit tactfully and respectfully, they will continue to keep you at your current level since by not saying anything, you must be happy where you are at.  At 150 days, you have the right to know whether you are still considered a temp employee or not.  You may even have legal recourse through your state's department of labor for retro benefits and such since the temp period is only 90 days and you've been in the same status for 150 with no explanation.  I would call them and ask what your rights are.  You can do so without having to name the employer unless you want to file a grievance.

As far a hiring practices go, when it comes down to having to select from equally qualified people, the person with the military background always gets the nod.  I am not a micro-manager, so I need someone that can work by and think for themselves as well as understands deadlines, responsibility, teamwork and chain of command.

 

[AprioriMark]

It sounds to me like a few things are true:
1)  Poor management
2)  Shady management
3)  Related to 2, they're trying to take max advantage of your experience and work ethic.  If they hired you officially, they'd have a harder time getting rid of you, and I'm sure their game plan is hire/fire within a certain timeframe while paying no more than X. 
4)  Don't assume that these people follow the same rules as people who have served.  They will lie, they will lack intestinal fortitude, they will not seek to accomplish the reasonable goals that you would.  Go to the first person above you that you trust and lay it out.  If you don't trust any of them, go to the top.  That's not a mistake i this case.  It'll be their loss if you go, and maybe you should.  Your integrity might be better served elsewhere.

-Mark

 

[Dan025]

thank you guys, there is alot of frustration in my life right now, i think management is both shady and ignorant, we have managers not foremen, they dont have experience, my boss is the nephew of a former boss who is good friends with the owner, he was a bagger at shopright before he worked at this company and because they had him work on the floor for a couple years he thinks hes a machinist. they just made him a manager after i started and he started coming to work in sweats like he was gonna stretch out on the couch and watch a game or something. eventually they made him wear a button down shirt and tie but it showed his lack of professionalism early on. the most experienced guy there is an old jamacan guy, he tells me about the work he did using machines to there full potential, macros that used the machines spindle and axis feed load monitors to change to a new cutting tool and robotic cranes that grabed stock and brought it to the machines when the parts were finished, the company he worked for moved and he's been at this one 10 years, he has the same rank as a guy from poland who asks him questions every time he sets up a machine and had no prior machining experience and has less time in the company. so like they say it's not about what you know...

funny thing is this company pays better than its competitors and is recognized for how good they treat there employees, they just dont know how to run a machine shop or train people or communicate information, or hire people, or well this could be a long list

 

[Dan025]

so after 5 months of being in the dark and being sure that i was not getting hire permanantly i was offered the position, and a promotion....

i was surprised at this, and the poor new girl expected excitement but i had to explain that i was getting calls and was setting up interviews as i had assumed the worst thinking i was never getting hired and that i need to think about this because i didnt want to take a promotion and leave, it would be rude. next i know the conversation leads to why i was unsure of if i wanted to stay and unsure of if i was being hired, i talk about my interaction with my boss (bad move but i was honest (really bad move)) and that i was in the dark for 5 months on the subject and that the project i was working with has had problem and i didnt know how that was affecting the decision. so she says i need an answer by friday because we want to move forward on this and the benefits package must be started at the first of the mont so we want it active for you on monday for your sake..

i think about it as the shift goes by and decide to take it, the prior interviews i went on didnt go anywhere and calls didnt mean opportunities necessarily and security was better right now plus an old timer there put it into perspective saying looking at other jobs isnt wrong and will it be rude it they come to you tomarrow and let you go. i went in yesterday and the boss calls me in to speak to him and the human resources rep, i go in and we sit down, the hr rep tells me that the perm position offer has been retracted and that my term with triangle has ended, if i have any personal property at my work station to remove it and to empty my locker and when to pick up my paycheck. well fudge thats what i get for honesty, i guess since i never had a job other than the military i never learned to play the games, i figured an interview for clarification on what i ment or a simple counciing was in order if they even took anything as bad, for 5 months i have no explanation and a boss that cant tell me company policies on the subject of holidays and sick time, i talk about communication not being good and i get fired, what happens to the ever incompetant dave? not a thing!

 

[lafromla1]

Dude, that absolutely blows.  I really can't stand the way most companies are doing business over the last 20 or so years.  No loyalty to their good workers whatsoever.  It sounds like they had other people up for this position and someone accepted before you did, most likely at a lower pay grade.

Did you ever work over 40 hours in a week and not get paid overtime?  If so, you have huge recourse against the company and there are firms out there who will take the case and collect their payment upon settlement.

I would also still look into any recourse on being there 150 days when the temporary period is only 90 days.

 

[Dan025]

the best part was that i was worried about me leaving being rude, and vinny the most experinced guy in the shop says "will it be rude if they fire you tomorrow"
dave by the way is my boss, i complained about the comunication thus complaining about dave and that's what i think they got angry about, i wasnt there long enough to make those types of statments, no company want people undermining the boss, and as bad as dave was about the job he was also left in the dark, it wasnt that he was uncertain of my status and knew what things they were looking at behind the scenes he was as oblivious to hrs intentions as i was, never question your boss or his boss i guess is the moral here. i already have leads on better jobs, and i am guaranteed a position at a local body shop, they are swamped right now and there mechanic is in jail for his 3rd DWI, its literally 2 minutes from my house so if all else fails i can do that.

someone once told me and i have no idea if it is true but this is what was said, that a Chinese word for crisis is the same as there word for opportunity, i dont know what chinese language it is supposed to be and if it is wrong plese correct me but maybe this was my cue to find something better

 

[lafromla1]

Grab the body shop position until you can find something else.  You are right, opportunity arises in situations like these.  At least at the body shop you'll be appreciated, due to how swamped they are, and you will feel better by being wanted and treated better.  That will give you the chance to find something that really suits you instead of taking a job due to necessity, but really being unhappy there.

 

[OzziePete]

Wow Dan that is soooooo rotten what your ex employer did.

Fair enough if they didn't want you in the first place, have a gripe about them not communicating and start looking for jobs etc. But to come to you with a permanent offer, then ask why you are underwhelmed and then react to your honesty in your reply by withdrawing their initial offer! Man, that's just being too personal about whatever criticisms you levelled at them. What did they want from you when the offer was put, a complete soccer goal celebration?

Obviously you were good enough for the job permanently and I'd submit that their reasons for withdrawing the offer are dubious..... Sounds like they want a workforce of yes men, which is a work place going no where fast.

But I'd also add that you are probably better off away from that mob. They can't seem to handle criticism of the way they do things, and inevitably you would have found yourself wanting to do that.

I guess they'd say you were being totally ungrateful at the time the offer was made, completely forgetting the over long time you were kept in the dark about your future there (which may be illegal work practices too).

You could, if you were curious, talk to some legal person and get an opinion about the way the whole situation of your employment and subsequent removal was handled and whether any recourse is possible, or you can just look ahead and try for another job.

Oh, and one last thing. I mention to any of your ex military buddies who may have similar quals to you about the hassles you had at that place, as a gentle heads up not to respond to any job advert they may place.

 

[JaySwear]

wow man, thats terrible. i had something similar, except not on nearly as big of a scale. i was at my first full-time job and they were hurting for managers. i knew i was qualified, worked hard on finishing everything i did on time, but still only just barely got an interview. never heard back from that interview, and a girl who came in about a year after me (still in high school at the time too i think) took the interview and had the position almost immediately.

i'll definitely never go back to that company. they actively search for female managers, and when my store had 3 male managers they almost wouldn't allow it (even though it was an efficient store). a store with 3 female managers was not only NOT an issue, thats what they eventually turned my store into before i finally left. go figure. the higher ups are almost always the dumbest of the bunch.

 

[AutoBat]

probably decided during a budget meeting, new hires can start at the bottom, experience costs more

 

[BigBeard]

I was once an independent delivery contractor.  And I had a contract with a company for two years.  The company informed me one day that I would have to purchase a box truck if I wanted to continue to contract from them.  So I did...... Under the impression that I would get a raise.  Key word in that sentence is 'impression'  So I did what the owner asked.  Laid down $8K for a box truck, which two weeks later the differential went out on it.  Didn't get paid for that day, so I said something to the owner, and I said that I wanted a raise cause my overhead (FUEL and another truck payment and way more expensive commercial insurance) DOUBLED!!!!!  Well, the owner says he'll have to check the books.  I said, "This is simple, I have worked for you for two years, never called off a day, worked extra so your son could go on vacation, came home early from my honeymoon so you could have off for your anniversary, I don't think it's too much to ask for another $50 a day"  When you get paid $250 a day for your work, $50 a day is a drop in the hat so to speak, but it would have covered the increase in fuel that I experienced going from regular gas to diesel.......  Well the owner again said he would have to check the books.  I replied with:  well I checked my books and you are phucking me really good right now, so go ahead and unload my truck and I'll look for another job..... Well the owner says, "No, No, I'll give you the raise, please don't stick me with  2 million dollars worth of pharmacuticals and film" (all of Ohio's Walmart accounts were in my truck during this conversation)  So I foolishly took the run.  You all know what happens next..... on my way back home, I get a call about 20 minutes after I unloaded the truck and got fired!!!  So the moral of the story is that sooner or later in your experiences in the workforce you will get screwed big time.  Now three years later, I still am paying on the loan on the truck which I sold for $1500, my credit is shot due to the loans I took out to run my business.


Not to piss you off or anything, and I do thank you for your military service, but your post comes off sounding like you think you are a better or more qualified employee cause you were in the service.  That isn't true, you aren't better than me cause you decided to fight an oil war bud.  I know that sounds mean, but really, your military service shouldn't get you any further than a non veteran.  Sorry, but I feel that way.

 

[line6man]

came home early from my honeymoon so you could have off for your anniversary

Um, what!?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If I'm taking time off work for a honeymoon, unless it's an emergency, the boss can go fudge himself until I get back.

 

[bigguspickus]

USA! USA! USA!

 

[Dan025]

I was once an independent delivery contractor.  And I had a contract with a company for two years.  The company informed me one day that I would have to purchase a box truck if I wanted to continue to contract from them.  So I did...... Under the impression that I would get a raise.  Key word in that sentence is 'impression'  So I did what the owner asked.  Laid down $8K for a box truck, which two weeks later the differential went out on it.  Didn't get paid for that day, so I said something to the owner, and I said that I wanted a raise cause my overhead (FUEL and another truck payment and way more expensive commercial insurance) DOUBLED!!!!!  Well, the owner says he'll have to check the books.  I said, "This is simple, I have worked for you for two years, never called off a day, worked extra so your son could go on vacation, came home early from my honeymoon so you could have off for your anniversary, I don't think it's too much to ask for another $50 a day"  When you get paid $250 a day for your work, $50 a day is a drop in the hat so to speak, but it would have covered the increase in fuel that I experienced going from regular gas to diesel.......  Well the owner again said he would have to check the books.  I replied with:  well I checked my books and you are phucking me really good right now, so go ahead and unload my truck and I'll look for another job..... Well the owner says, "No, No, I'll give you the raise, please don't stick me with  2 million dollars worth of pharmacuticals and film" (all of Ohio's Walmart accounts were in my truck during this conversation)  So I foolishly took the run.  You all know what happens next..... on my way back home, I get a call about 20 minutes after I unloaded the truck and got fired!!!  So the moral of the story is that sooner or later in your experiences in the workforce you will get screwed big time.  Now three years later, I still am paying on the loan on the truck which I sold for $1500, my credit is shot due to the loans I took out to run my business.


Not to piss you off or anything, and I do thank you for your military service, but your post comes off sounding like you think you are a better or more qualified employee cause you were in the service.  That isn't true, you aren't better than me cause you decided to fight an oil war bud.  I know that sounds mean, but really, your military service shouldn't get you any further than a non veteran.  Sorry, but I feel that way.

dude, that wasnt my point the point was that i went to school 9hrs a day for 5 months, had 1 year of on job training, and was given an extensive education in my field with 7 volumes of very large books that i was tested on, 4 years work experience and then more schooling for more advanced aspects of the career, the guys i was working next to dont speak english, id say there was an imbalance, i never meant to compare to any one on the board, sorry if im proud i feel i have a right to be. its not the veteran status its the training i want to emphasize lots and lots of training and work experience. the military has very structured training and if your a putz or otherwise dont match your career feild or fail to meet the standards they either get rid of you or cross train which in the airforce mostly means you'll be a cop. no disrespect to sp's mp's or any other law enforcment persons military or civilian. the reason had to do with recruiting in that field was below the requirement and they had to get people into it somehow.

and im not mad they let me go. its a relief. i say im an idiot jokingly. had they caught me on another day i would have reacted differently, had the new recruiter for the company not been upset that i called a part stupid i wouldnt have gotten on the topic of the nature of the frustrations with communication, i felt i had to clarify that it wasnt the part that i was frustrated with but the line of communication when there was a problem. there was a lets not solve the problem attitude but lets blame the operators ignorance solution (which i didnt say im not quite that stupid), had i the authority to make alterations i wouldnt have to fudge the numbers so much and past operators of the job where there higher ranking guys that could make the alteration and not be told not to by the boss. i could have altered the program to make adjustments from the offsets screen, just a matter of punching a number into a set of brackets to tell it to read variable 2931 or what ever i chose and a plus sign on 4 lines of code. with variables it would take the risk out of altering the dimensions, a mistake in the g-code like accidentally deleting a dimension can mean crashed machines or a program that stops with an error mid way, with variables added to the dimensions your numbers are always close to zero and the machine has no need to be put in the ever feared edit mode to tweek them. that's a solution that meets my requirements and the boss's liability fears of letting an operator do something that is a task for a setup operator. well i might have to let a setup machinist do the typing and i guess that would have taken up too much time, never mind the time lost on the few parts that were bad and would continue to come out bad.

ok that was too much information.

Im not the best at talking to people. its my fault ill make it perfectly clear, i thought i was looked down upon day to day but my boss's boss didnt see it like that, well im not sure if he saw anything at all. not at the time anyway. they just didn't give me feed back like they did the other two guys, they left me hanging twice as long as the other two guy, i had no way of knowing they wanted to hire and promote me, every sign pointed the other way.  people were calling with job offers closer to home and i had doubts. yeah i get that life sux, maybe noone wants to here my complaint cuz theyve been through worse, realize that you guys are about the only people i get to talk to, i was working nights 10hrs shifts and driving 2hrs a day, there was one guy in the building that spoke english as a first language other than myself but he had aspergers and was worse off socially than myself, one day hes cool as shite the next he wont be bothered, this board is my social life. i just wanted to share because i have noone else to talk to about it, i expected at least one person to be less than sympathetic, and well this wasnt even that bad.  

also im not angry, not now that i let that out. and sorry about the delivery gig, that really sux, i mean you got f*cked, $250 a day in ohio is great pay i cant make that in new york right now. how do you replace a job like that. usually jobs like that and i thought jobs like mine you get away with some level of arguing with the boss. i guess they felt they could find someone else with a box truck that would work for what you got or less. it a crime how employers dont want to maintain the standards of living of the employees, guys in machine shops in the 80's made every bit as much money as most do today. 30 years and the pay is just about the same for an entry level job, in many cases it's worse, $15 an hour is hard to come by right now.

 

[The Norwegian Guy]

I fell asleep in a bush last night.. One of my female friends thought that I'd died.

It was raining...