Graph Tech Ratio Locking Tuners how to install?

[SuperWideHeaven]

Hi there,

did anyone installed Graph Tech locking Tuners on a Warmoth Stratocaster replacement neck and can give some advice how to install them?

I bought these 6-in-Line Graph Tech Ratio locking tuners:
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-electric/products/ratio-electric-locking-machine-heads-6-in-line-prl-9721

The Graph Tech Tuners got 2 very short pins (not as long as the Fender locking tuners) and come with so called Invisiomatch plates to fit existing holes of tunes that are replaced. But how to install these tuners on a "new" Warmoth headstock?

On Graph Tech Website I found these Invisiomatch Plates for Fender. But they're not supplied in the 6-in-Line Package:
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-mounting-plates/products/ratio-plate-for-fender-sty-2-pin-hole-bk?variant=31625845178391

The 6-in-Line Package comes only with these plates:
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-mounting-plates/products/ratio-plate-for-45-degree-screw-hole-blk?variant=31613197385751
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-mounting-plates/products/ratio-plate-for-90-degree-screw-hole-blk?variant=31613391601687
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-mounting-plates/products/ratio-plate-for-gibson-screw-hole-blk?variant=31613185720343
https://graphtech.com/collections/ratio-machine-heads-mounting-plates/products/ratio-plate-for-f-style-screw-hole-blk?variant=31613118119959

Why the plates for fender are missing in the 6-in-Line package? Are the Tuners supposed to be installed without plates even if its pins are so short?

Can somebody help?

Best regards,
Bernd

 

[stratamania]

The plates are for retrofitting to an existing installation. Or they can be used without a plate which is what you need to do.

For a fresh installation you need to follow the alternate method per Graphtechs installation guide. All on the web page you posted.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2372/8913/files/Graph_Tech_RATIO_Installation_Guide_Mar2022.pdf?v=1646330598

Or this video from around 1:17 though as you don't have the two pin fender plates you will need another way to mark them. Edit: Any of the invisoplates can be used for the alternate method at the link above.

For direct mounting the Graphtech pins themselves without an invisoplate use the alternate method at the link above.

If you want to drill for 2 point Fender pins and then use the relevant invisoplate with the Graphtechs then the below jig can be used for 2 point Fender pins.

Tuner Pin Drill Jig - StewMac

Accurately positions the hidden tuning machine pin holes. Ideal for one and two-pin Schaller tuners, one-pin Sperzels, and Fender locking tuners.

www.stewmac.com

 

[SuperWideHeaven]

Thank you Stratamania, that was very helpfull.

I wasn't sure if the wood of the headstock would be able to hold the Graph Tech tuner pins in place, which are only 1/16" in diameter and short as 1/8".

The holes have to be drilled on two different necks with indian rosewood and a roasted maple headstock. I suppose the roasted maple headstock must be handled with particular care because its wood is so brittle.

Is it really recommend to use an electric driller for drilling holes that a only 1/8" deep? Is there a better tool for drilling these tiny holes by hand?

 

[stratamania]

If you have a concern you could also use a hand drill though a small power drill if you are confident in its use.

The holes don't hold the tuners in place the nuts from the front of the headstock to the posts do. The little holes are more for alignment and positioning.

 

[Dero08]

I know this is super late, but I just stumbled onto this post …

i highly recommend the jig that @stratamania recommended. I’ve installed 2 sets of Graph Techs and Fenders (w/the locating pins), and this jig worked great every time.

here’s the process on an all-rosewood neck:

https://flic.kr/p/2oRaAXs

the graph tech and fender pins are different distances from the tuner holes, and this jig fits both. It seems like it also fits the one-hole tuners too.

 

[stratamania]

I signed up here just to post that the Stewmac jig is not an exact fit for the ratio tuners. It's close, but the holes are not quite right for two reasons.

The inner row of pins on the Stewmac jig are designed to fit the Schaller M6 two-pin design. You can see a diagram of the spacings on this page (scroll down). You can find a diagram of the spacings for the GraphTech Ratio tuners on this page (scroll down, click the PDF link to see a version with readable text).

The main issue is that the pins on the Schaller M6 are offset 8mm (center to center) from the main tuner shaft/hole, while on the GraphTech Ratio they are offset 8.6mm. The secondary issue is that the Graphtech tuners require a 2.5mm (or 7/64") drill bit, and the hole in the Stewmac tool holes are for a 3/32" drill bit.

The Stewmac jig is designed for both the Fender 2 pin design and has a separate set of holes for the 2 pin M6. They also require different drill sizes.

This is all documented here. You need to use the correct set of holes and bit.

https://www.stewmac.com/globalassets/video-and-ideas/online-resources/tuning-machines/tuner-pin-drill-jig-instructions/download-tuner-pin-drill-jig-instructions

Schaller also make 2 pin tuners that are the same as the Fender Spec in addition to the M6.

 

[MattInSeattle]

The Stewmac jig is designed for both the Fender 2 pin design and has a separate set of holes for the 2 pin M6. They also require different drill sizes.

This is all documented here. You need to use the correct set of holes and bit.

https://www.stewmac.com/globalassets/video-and-ideas/online-resources/tuning-machines/tuner-pin-drill-jig-instructions/download-tuner-pin-drill-jig-instructions

Schaller also make 2 pin tuners that are the same as the Fender Spec in addition to the M6.

Thanks for your reply.

I tried to reply to the thread using the account (mhumphrey) above, but yesterday the account was erroneously flagged as "spam" and I am not able to find a way to resolve that. So I've created this second account and connected via a VPN, because I really don't want people to read this thread and ruin their guitar necks putting holes in the wrong place.

I understand what the StewMac jig is designed for. I own one. My post was about Graphtech Ratio tuners, not Schaller or Fender. The Ratio tuner alignment pins are at a different offset than Schaller or Fender; they are 0.6mm different from Schaller. I verified this via the manufacturer's drawings (linked above) and by drilling test holes (using the jig) in a scrap piece of wood.

I am working with a friend to machine a small jig for Graphtech Ratio. I'm happy to share the CAD file for that if people want it - once I've verified it's correctness.

 

[Rick]

Or you can get hipshots and do no holes. That said, I've installed them without using a jig. Just line them up the best you can, get a drill, and drill the hole. I mark it first with a nail punch so it doesn't skitter. Put on some tape on the bit so you don't go too deep. It's not hard.

 

[MattInSeattle]

Or you can get hipshots and do no holes. That said, I've installed them without using a jig. Just line them up the best you can, get a drill, and drill the hole. I mark it first with a nail punch so it doesn't skitter. Put on some tape on the bit so you don't go too deep. It's not hard.

100% agree. I used the "alternate" approach GraphTech mentions in their installation instructions - I used the adapter plates as a guide to mark the holes using a sharpie, than a scratch awl to make a place for the drill bit to start, then drilled on my drill press. I'm making the jig because it's an opportunity to use my friends CNC machine and learn something about milling aluminum (I have my own CNC, but it can really only handle wood).

Again, I posted this because I saw people recommending to use the StewMac jig for these tuners, and I was hoping to save someone the headache of a misdrilled neck. I guess it's true that no good deed goes unpunished

 

[stratamania]

@MattInSeattle I agree with anyone drilling holes in a guitar needs to check the dimensions and tools all work together, and thanks for your concern for accuracy.

I see you already used the Alternate method, to use one of the invisoplates as a template for drilling your holes for the 2 pins of the Graptech itself. The invisoplate is not used for mounting them after the holes are drilled. This was mentioned in post 2 above which I will add a further clarification to. If you are making your own jig are planning on installing several sets of Graphtechs?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2...O_Installation_Guide_Mar2022.pdf?v=1646330598

The recommendation for the StewMac jig was for those wanting to drill holes for a 2 point Fender, and then use the relevant invisoplate for mounting. I was not suggesting that the M6 holes on that jig were the same as the Graphtech pins.

I guess it's true that no good deed goes unpunished

Not really, many thanks for contributing. Though no written explanation is always read as meant.

Perhaps check and clear your cookies if your original account has been marked as spam.

 

[MattInSeattle]

@MattInSeattle I agree with anyone drilling holes in a guitar needs to check the dimensions and tools all work together, and thanks for your concern for accuracy.

I see you already used the Alternate method, to use one of the invisoplates as a template for drilling your holes for the 2 pins of the Graptech itself.

Understood. I was referring to this comment from Dero08:

i highly recommend the jig that @stratamania recommended. I’ve installed 2 sets of Graph Techs and Fenders (w/the locating pins), and this jig worked great every time.

That will definitely be interpreted by less careful folks as "StewMac jig works for Graohtechs".

The invisoplate is not used for mounting them after the holes are drilled. This was mentioned in post 2 above which I will add a further clarification to. If you are making your own jig are planning on installing several sets of Graphtechs?

Not right now, although I like the Warmoth neck I recently bought so much I am sure I will have a need for it in the future. I posted (on a big mailing list at work) a question about if there was a 3D equivalent to SendCutSend, and a friend reminded me that his CNC can mill aluminum and mild steel, and suggested we work together on the project and post a video of it on YouTube. If it works out, I'm going to investigate what the cost would be to get a small batch machined. I'm expecting it will be cost prohibitive, but who knows. I also thought about having SendCutSend cut some aluminum or steel flat plate of sufficient thickness to make a passible drilling jig when combined with a dowel pin or taper pin to help align it with the tuner hole.

Not really, many thanks for contributing. Though no written explanation is always read as meant.

Perhaps check and clear your cookies if your original account has been marked as spam.

Oh yes, really. I guess you don't know how bad my experience was. My original account, which I guess I will just abandon now, was erroneously banned for spam. I found out from @aarontunes that this is because I made a post with URLs (links) in it. Apparently if your account is very new (low post count) and you make a post with URLs, even if it's just replying with quoting of someone else's post that has URLs, your account gets flagged.

I got a message saying I was banned for spam and to contact an administrator if this was in error. The message provided no hints as to how to contact said administrator. I was unable to see any forum content until I deleted the cookie from my browser. After doing that, I scoured the site looking for a way to contact an administrator, but I found nothing useful.

I then tried to sign up for a new account, but because my IP address hadn't changed, this got flagged as well, and so I never was able to activate that account (didn't even get confirmation email).

So then I called Warmoth. The person there told me to email webmaster -at- Warmoth -dot- com. I did that, but the email bounced. At this point my frustration level was at 9000. In desperation, I joined a Warmoth-related Facebook group and asked there if anyone knew of a way to contact a site admin here. I didn't get any useful suggestions from Facebook - just people that told me Warmoth was great, or that I should call Warmoth tech support.

So finally as a last resort, I decided to use a VPN to try and sign up a 3rd time. Apple has a "private email" feature that lets you create additional emails, so I used one of those. This time it worked. Then, not realizing the issue with URLs, I made the post above, which, because it quoted your post that has a URL in it, also got flagged for moderator approval. Fortunately before this turned into a second ban, I sent a message to @aarontunes who saw what was going on and straightened everything out. He let me know why my account and posts were flagged.

I wonder how many others this has happened to who aren't as stubborn or tech savvy as me and who just gave up. I think you should consider putting an email address in that message that's displayed that tells users their account was trashed because of "spam". I also think in the forum rules you should caution people about the URL/link in post issue. I've set up a few forum sites in my past, and been an administrator of one, so I know how bad the spam issue can be, but I personally would never allow a situation where people can be erroneously banned and not have someone reviewing it that same day.

 

[MattInSeattle]

And by the way, here is the neck with the tuners installed. I got unlucky on the fret level, so I have a luthier fixing that right now, but I did play it enough to know this is by far my favorite guitar neck.

 

[Spud]

And by the way, here is the neck with the tuners installed. I got unlucky on the fret level, so I have a luthier fixing that right now, but I did play it enough to know this is by far my favorite guitar neck.

View attachment 61714

Not being mean here, but maybe next time make sure they are aligned with a straight edge. No huge deal as I am sure they work great.

 

[MattInSeattle]

Not being mean here, but maybe next time make sure they are aligned with a straight edge. No huge deal as I am sure they work great.

I did actually - I had a ruler clamped up against the plates and 9.8mm wooden dowels through each to center them on the holes. Unfortunately, the main hole in the plates is oversized, so there is enough wiggle room for it to get off a bit, and you can see that one on the end is misaligned. I am horribly fumble-fingered, which is why I wanted the jig...

 

[Spud]

I did actually - I had a ruler clamped up against the plates and 9.8mm wooden dowels through each to center them on the holes. Unfortunately, the main hole in the plates is oversized, so there is enough wiggle room for it to get off a bit, and you can see that one on the end is misaligned. I am horribly fumble-fingered, which is why I wanted the jig...

It won't hurt anything. Rock on!

 

[stratamania]

Oh yes, really. I guess you don't know how bad my experience was. My original account, which I guess I will just abandon now, was erroneously banned for spam. I found out from @aarontunes that this is because I made a post with URLs (links) in it. Apparently if your account is very new (low post count) and you make a post with URLs, even if it's just replying with quoting of someone else's post that has URLs, your account gets flagged.

Now I see what you mean.

I was previously an admin for a while on the forum, but when it moved to the current software, it is now Warmoth employees only, so I cannot say for certain. Recently, there has been a large spate of spambot accounts posting URLs to things from gummies to some terrible stuff that very sadly exists at all and was being linked to. I can only assume the admins have set banning URLs to low post count members to counteract the nuisance and malicious content that was linked to. @aarontunes who you contacted, is one of the key people for this and good to hear that he is aware.

I hope you continue to participate, despite getting innocently caught up in measures for counteracting Spam.

 

[MattInSeattle]

Now I see what you mean.

I was previously an admin for a while on the forum, but when it moved to the current software, it is now Warmoth employees only, so I cannot say for certain.

Oh, my mistake - I thought you were an admin.

Recently, there has been a large spate of spambot accounts posting URLs to things from gummies to some terrible stuff that sadly was being linked to. I can only assume the admins have set banning URLs to low post count members to counteract the nuisance and malicious content that was linked to. @aarontunes who you contacted, is one of the key people for this and good to hear that he is aware.

I can empathize with the challenges. I set up hosting for a friend's forum a couple of years ago (actually set it up 3 times, before we landed somewhere good), and was an active admin there for awhile. I was amazed at the constant barage of probes and outright hack attempts, 90% of which was coming from overseas.

I hope you continue to participate, despite getting innocently caught up in measures for counteracting Spam.

I will for sure. Thanks.

 

[MattInSeattle]

Back on topic - here is a screen shot of my CAD design for the Graphtech tuner jig. I've largely recreated the shape of the StewMac jig, but of course with the hole location spacing changed to match the Graphtech Ratio spacings. But I am thinking of simplifying it to make it easier and cheaper to machine by making the front face just come to a simple point. I'm very interested in feedback on the design; if you have any ideas to make it easier to use or more effective, please share.

Also, the StewMac jig comes with a brass centering bushing. I haven't been able to figure out where to find those, and having those machined rather than just purchasing mass produced ones will add to the cost. So if you know where to find such a thing, please share.