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Gotoh 3 saddle bridge from Warmoth Issues

Ozopart

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I am having a lot of difficulty getting this bridge intonnated properly. Between the saddle set screws and the intonation screws at the back, I am going back and forth but can't get things working smoothly. Chords are OK now, single notes not so much. I have setup this same bridge on other Warmoth Tele's with no issue. Not sure what is the problem here. The body is a Vintage Tele Warmoth body, and the Neck is a 21 fret roasted maple Warmoth neck.

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for troubleshooting, or alternatively, suggestions for a more stable/easy to setup bridge. I don't mind spending more if the bridge is better..
 
Chords are OK now, single notes not so much.
This is an honest question, as I don't understand this, but: How can chords be ok, when single notes are not?

And btw.: The set screws have nothing to do with the intonation, they are for individual string height.
 
This is an honest question, as I don't understand this, but: How can chords be ok, when single notes are not?

And btw.: The set screws have nothing to do with the intonation, they are for individual string height.
Your question makes perfect sense, and sorry for being a bit dumb on all of this. I have built several Warmoth guitars in the past, but had the wiring done by Fralin. Meaning loaded pickguards or control plates. But for the Telecasters I built I used the Gotoh 3 Saddle bridges Warmoth sells and had no issues "out of the box". For this build after I got everything together the strings were "dead" or flubby. I adjusted the string height (as you say, sorry to be dumb there, they don't cfhange intonation, but they do (I think, or it seems) impact whether the string resonates or sounds dead. That helped a bit, but I still am having issues with the strings just not resonating clean (not sure what the correct words are here).
What I meant by chords being OK, lead notes not so much, is when I fret higher on some strings it sounds different. I am not great at words to describe this but they are sort of jangly, erratic, trebly, ?
The main thing is it had lots of dead strings when I first completed the build. I might be making things worse adjusting, but I don't think so. I think I am trending in the right direction. Now I think I need to replace the .001uF cap I used with either a .022uF, or maybe even go to the standard .047uF cap. Not sure yet, I might try the .022uF first. The tone is just a bit too bright for me with the .001uF. I chose that based on a Fralin video on the impact of different caps, but I think it isn't a good match for my Blues Special pickups.
Anyway, I appreciate your help.
 
For at least a third of my guitar playing life I didn't know how intonation worked, so I would be the last one to call you dumb. 😅

Also string height can sometimes feel like a compromise.

Did you check the neck relief?
 
For at least a third of my guitar playing life I didn't know how intonation worked, so I would be the last one to call you dumb. 😅

Also string height can sometimes feel like a compromise.

Did you check the neck relief?
I didn't do that, I have considered myself, being not particularly handy, lucky not to have ever had to adjust any of my Warmoth necks. Perhaps this is the first time? I will do a bit of research to see how to check the neck relief.
It is probably obvious, but this particular build was intended to be to create a guitar that I cduld do lots of different things like testing different pickups, bridges, ... So, I am not at all unhappy with having to tweak things. I just need to learn a lot do know what to do. Again, I appreciate the help.
 
Try a different set. Strings can (I’d say 2-3%of the time) be dead out of the package.

First check the nut. Then set neck relief. Now set intonation while the guitar is in a playing position.

Now report back how things are. Also if you are using single coils, lower them. You may be suffering from stratitis. Single coils have a heavy magnet pull, and can pull things out of tune it set to close.
 
Try a different set. Strings can (I’d say 2-3%of the time) be dead out of the package.

First check the nut. Then set neck relief. Now set intonation while the guitar is in a playing position.

Now report back how things are. Also if you are using single coils, lower them. You may be suffering from stratitis. Single coils have a heavy magnet pull, and can pull things out of tune it set to close.
Wish I was skilled/knowledgeable in any of those 3 areas. Sadly I am just learning. As I said above, I never had any issues with playability of any of the Warmoth necks I used in the past. I think I messed up buying this one as all of my previous ones were Modern construction, 22 frets. This one is Modern/Vintage construction with 21 frets. I don't think the number of frets matters, but they construction type might. Either way, I need to learn to adjust the neck for playability.
 
Stop where you are at. Do you have 2 capos (1 can work but 2 is better), a true straight edge (if not get one), and an either a micrometer or feeler gauges (you can get a feeler gauge from an auto parts store).

You can do this, these basic tools are needed though.

All this will cost less than a neck. And you can use them all the time.

But even before then, if using single coils, drop them. Re intonate and see if your situation persists. I bet 65% it won’t.

Now remember a 3 saddle Tele bridge will never be perfect (that’s part of the magic). Intonate each saddle as a compromise between the shared strings: then adjust as needed for open chords. At that point you are good to go. Intonate using the open and fretted seventh rather than a harmonic 12th or fretted 12th.
 
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Stop where you are at. Do you have 2 capos (1 can work but 2 is better), a true straight edge (if not get one), and an either a micrometer or feeler gauges (you can get a feeler gauge from an auto parts store).

You can do this, these basic tools are needed though.

All this will cost less than a neck. And you can use them all the time.

But even before then, if using single coils, drop them. Re intonate and see if your situation persists. I bet 65% it won’t.

Now remember a 3 saddle Tele bridge will never be perfect (that’s part of the magic). Intonate each saddle as a compromise between the shared strings: then adjust as needed for open chords. At that point you are good to go. Intonate using the open and fretted seventh rather than a harmonic 12th or fretted 12th.
A couple of questions;

(1) By micrometer do you mean digital calipers, or something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tools-Professional-Micrometer-102/100659779
(2) By straight edge do you mean a ruler, or ...
(3) For intonation adjustment, I think I need a different screwdriver, mine doesn't seem to make a tight fit. I think for the bridge I have it wants a #2 philips head. I am thinking an 8" long one might be better also.
(4) I have several capos, not sure how you are suggesting to use them though. Do you mean put one at the first fret and one at the seventh? Or ...
(5) Dumb question here but when you say "drop them" for the single coils (I have Fralin Blues Special Tele pickups) do you mean lower them further from the strings?

I definitely don't intend to replace the neck as the purpose of this build was to create a learning tool. Of course I wanted it to be playable right away and more focused on experimenting with pickups, but ... Anyway, I won't be replacing the neck. I intend to put those funds towards either a keyboard, drums, a better speaker output solution, an amp and passive cabinet maybe, and a Gibson LP Special P90.

Thanks as always for the help.
 
Do you meanby "not resonate" to mean they are deadening themselves by hitting the frets?
 
Yes. And they also seem to not vibrate "cleanly". Not sure the right words.
Ok loosen the strings a few turns THEN use Allen wrench to raise the saddles upward until the strings vibrate cleanly. The bridge should have come supplied with appropriate tool.
 
Ok loosen the strings a few turns THEN use Allen wrench to raise the saddles upward until the strings vibrate cleanly. The bridge should have come supplied with appropriate tool.
I will give that a try. Thanks! I also noticed that in the "Warning" sheet Warmoth sends with the neck it says to leave it sladk when not stringed. I had the neck for about 2 months unstrung after receiving prior to building, and then had strings on it for a week without tightening them (tuning them) fully. Not sure if that cuased a problem. It is a compound neck and Warmoth says eyeballing it is unreliable. But when I do eyeball it it looks concave a bit, further from strings in the higher fret area.
 
A couple of questions;

(1) By micrometer do you mean digital calipers, or something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tools-Professional-Micrometer-102/100659779
(2) By straight edge do you mean a ruler, or ...
(3) For intonation adjustment, I think I need a different screwdriver, mine doesn't seem to make a tight fit. I think for the bridge I have it wants a #2 philips head. I am thinking an 8" long one might be better also.
(4) I have several capos, not sure how you are suggesting to use them though. Do you mean put one at the first fret and one at the seventh? Or ...
(5) Dumb question here but when you say "drop them" for the single coils (I have Fralin Blues Special Tele pickups) do you mean lower them further from the strings?

I definitely don't intend to replace the neck as the purpose of this build was to create a learning tool. Of course I wanted it to be playable right away and more focused on experimenting with pickups, but ... Anyway, I won't be replacing the neck. I intend to put those funds towards either a keyboard, drums, a better speaker output solution, an amp and passive cabinet maybe, and a Gibson LP Special P90.

Thanks as always for the help.
I. Caliper guage

2. Yes something that has an absolute even straight edge.

3. Getit

4. Yes lower the pups. As an example (and I have Fralins in this guitar I am thinking of), the pups barely extend up past the Pickguard. Lowerer them all to just above the pickguard.

The capos are to make things easy.
Place a capo at fret 1 and measure the clearance at fret 2. That offers insight to if the nut is too high or too low

Next leave capo at fret 1 and place your other capo as high on the neck as possible. Use a feeler gauge at fret 7. This gives us relief. Looking for something at .005-.008.

Now lose that high placed capo and adjust you saddles that from fret to underneath of string is 3/32 on your E and 2/32 on your high e.

That will offer a good baseline to start from.
 
I. Caliper guage

2. Yes something that has an absolute even straight edge.

3. Getit

4. Yes lower the pups. As an example (and I have Fralins in this guitar I am thinking of), the pups barely extend up past the Pickguard. Lowerer them all to just above the pickguard. adju

The capos are to make things easy.
Place a capo at fret 1 and measure the clearance at fret 2. That offers insight to if the nut is too high or too low

Next leave capo at fret 1 and place your other capo as high on the neck as possible. Use a feeler gauge at fret 7. This gives us relief. Looking for something at .005-.008.

Now lose that high placed capo and adjust you saddles that from fret to underneath of string is 3/32 on your E and 2/32 on your high e.

That will offer a good baseline to start from.
Thanks, Philadelphia Luthiers seems to have several of these tools at more reasonable prices than Stewmac. I will work on this more but I think my main issue might be my neck. I need to measure that as you are suggesting and see. Visually there is an obvious concave area in the higher fret area, but that is also normal I think. The issue is whether the strings being higher from the fretboard in that area are within tolerance or not. I suspect not. Not sure why as I never had this issue with a Warmoth neck in the past. I am not one to be ultra picky about such things, as long as the guitar sounds right, I am not obsessed with the action measurements being exact.
I should also mention here that I have an old book, The Guitar Handbook, which has some good maintenance advice. I just remembered that I had this book this morning. It mentions something I hadn't thought of regarding the issues I am having. Not sure of what particular item needing adjustment this indicates, but one of my big issues is that as I move up the fretboard, when the guitar is at perfect pitch, the notes become out of pitch. I know at a high level this indicates intonation, but before adjusting the bridge screws I know checking neck relief and string height (in additon to the nut height which I am totally not knowledgeable in!) are recommended before actually adjusting the bridge screws to lengthen or shorten the strings.
 
For nut slot, capo fret one. You want the strings to just high enough that they ring out (IE high enough to clear fret 2). As a rule of thumb, the Ws nuts are often not slotted deep enough. But that is largely no harm no foul.

Order to address:

1. LOWER all the pups so they are barely above the pickguard. Then report back. I say this as what you are describing could easily be Stratitis. What you are experiencing is the exact symptoms of it.

It show up as you go higher on the neck as by fretting that high, you are further decreasing the distance from the pup to the strings.
 
For nut slot, capo fret one. You want the strings to just high enough that they ring out (IE high enough to clear fret 2). As a rule of thumb, the Ws nuts are often not slotted deep enough. But that is largely no harm no foul.

Order to address:

1. LOWER all the pups so they are barely above the pickguard. Then report back. I say this as what you are describing could easily be Stratitis. What you are experiencing is the exact symptoms of it.

It show up as you go higher on the neck as by fretting that high, you are further decreasing the distance from the pup to the strings.
I will try lowering the pickups. I did measure them and they seemed to be at Fralin's suggested height, but the results are still not great.

I just went to a local repair shop and he took a quick look. He did a couple of twists of the truss rod and in general said the neck seems fine. He of course suggested a Setup, and wouildn't commit to not saying it needed leveling also. So, minimum $85 but likely $160 or even more!

I need to find some tools and mess with it myself. I am just very frustrated as I never had these types of issues with past Warmoth builds. I wanted to test out wiring and pickups, not get into guitar setup. I am thinking though that if the neck is OK, perhaps I don't need the straight edge at this time. I am trying to minimize the amount I spend on tools to adjust things as I hope not to devote a lot of time/effort to those types of tasks in the future.
 
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