Superlizard
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NovasScootYa said:
Yes but... I'm lazy that way. :icon_jokercolor:
Fret(s) still buzzing - final piece of advice sought
- Thread starter CrackedPepper
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Yes but... I'm lazy that way. :icon_jokercolor:
NovasScootYa said:
$60 for one of those? i need to throw some aluminum on the mill and go into buisness! lets see a $5-$10 dollar chinese dial indicator and a few dollars of aluminum and about 1/2 hr of my time, maybe less if im making alot of them at once.. ive mad similar tools for engines because the racing suppliers charge too much. maybe i can set up an ebay store!
jay4321
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Stew Mac has a lot of useful odds and ends like that. Some seem expensive for what they are - like the $35 I paid for the jig to help with installing tuner mount holes. I'm sure others could make most of those do-dads much cheaper, but maybe there's not all that much demand for them. How many of those things do you suppose they made and sold?
Superlizard
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Of course one could mill one of those... if one has access to a mill.
I'm not about to purchase a mill... so I'm actually saving $. :icon_jokercolor:
I'm not about to purchase a mill... so I'm actually saving $. :icon_jokercolor:
I've been doing my own fret work since the 1980's and I tend to agree that you simply can't set up a brand new neck perfectly. It takes six months to a year to settle down to the point where you can work towards shred height (which I personally don't prefer). However, given that the original frets were "Warmoth-level" and it's been leveled again since, it seems to me that the original poster simply can't get the action of the lower strings up high enough because of the bridge and neck pocket interaction. I personally would shim the bugger... :icon_biggrin:
I tend to be in a minority with this opinion, but I think Warmoths are not a great idea for anyone who hasn't owned several other electrics first, and developed a decent understanding of setup issues. I mentioned that I don't use shredder height, and it's because I like the sound of a clear note that's never vibrated even once against a higher fret. However, you reach a point where it's all a trade-off between action height, and tone. There is no such thing as perfect action, even though the neck itself may be leveled well. Do you want it low - or do you want it clean?
There's a somewhat controversial concept called "fret fall-away" (link below) which I'm sure Warmoth necks don't have, and I only work it into my Warmoths during the first level, crown & polish that's typically needed after a couple of years due to wear. (I have a 3 year-old neck with stainless frets that still has a couple of years before it'll need re-leveling.) In contrast, Tommy at USA Custom builds a bit of fall-away into his necks from the start - like I said, it's controversial.
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1139363.html
I tend to be in a minority with this opinion, but I think Warmoths are not a great idea for anyone who hasn't owned several other electrics first, and developed a decent understanding of setup issues. I mentioned that I don't use shredder height, and it's because I like the sound of a clear note that's never vibrated even once against a higher fret. However, you reach a point where it's all a trade-off between action height, and tone. There is no such thing as perfect action, even though the neck itself may be leveled well. Do you want it low - or do you want it clean?
There's a somewhat controversial concept called "fret fall-away" (link below) which I'm sure Warmoth necks don't have, and I only work it into my Warmoths during the first level, crown & polish that's typically needed after a couple of years due to wear. (I have a 3 year-old neck with stainless frets that still has a couple of years before it'll need re-leveling.) In contrast, Tommy at USA Custom builds a bit of fall-away into his necks from the start - like I said, it's controversial.
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1139363.html
erogenousjones17
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Max said:
Yes. This is sound advice, grasshopper. After owning six guitars (including two builds) and playing a great deal more, I'm starting to think I might almost have an idea of exactly what I want in a guitar. :doh:
I find it easy to dismiss problems that are stated in terms of playability, but not measured in any way.
No slight personally, to the original poster (or anyone else for that matter), but the "My strings buzz" issue really needs more than that to make any sort of reasonable answer worthwhile.
If someone says they did a "setup" and cannot say what the 12th fret string elevation is, or how they set the string elevation at the nut, or what the relief is set to (and at what fret), then there's really not much of a set up at all is there?
To do a setup, totally "by feel" may be ok if you already know the "feel" of the neck. But necks, frets, fretboards all feel differently. Doing that first setup - and later tweaks - "measured by the book" really puts everything as it ought to be. Then your know its right. Then your hand has some learning to do, if it doesn't feel right, or... if any further work is needed (such as fret ends).
There are mathematical limits to string elevation, with some give or take for playing style. Even more so, those limits will quickly become evident when you bend strings in the upper frets, beyond fret 12, where the limits show up as "fretting out" on bends.
Measuring the distance from fret crown to fretboard sometimes reveals un-useful information. The real issue is the fret crowns in relation to each other. Assuming a well made fretboard, the crown height should be pretty uniform though. On a refret or older neck, where wood has had a chance to age, shrink, expand,...change.... then the gauge to measure how tall the frets are is only good for saying "we need replacement frets about this tall, or just a little taller" to make the neck feel the same as it did before (assuming the width is correct)
I read some posts ago, that Gibson uses .036 tall wire. They "used to" use wire about that tall on electrics, but stopped that in the late 70's or early 80's (you can look it up at the Les Paul Forum). The fretless-wonder LP Customs had that wire taken down to as low as .025, close to the limit of having frets work at all. Gibson had a very shallow curve to the crown as well back then, almost flat. These days, Gibson uses wire about .047-.049 tall. Thats a huge difference. They also went from wide wire, to a more narrow wire at the same time. I remember what we used to call "SG" frets, the low-wide frets that were a little taller than the LP Custom frets. They were nice to play on, but a @#$@# to bend on with heavier strings. I used to like 'em. Now I prefer .010's or .011's on taller frets. Just feels better to me. Since Fender and Gibby and most of the others have started using taller frets, it must be there are a lot of folks who feel the same way as I do.
So much for rambling... hope the OP got his problem solved.
No slight personally, to the original poster (or anyone else for that matter), but the "My strings buzz" issue really needs more than that to make any sort of reasonable answer worthwhile.
If someone says they did a "setup" and cannot say what the 12th fret string elevation is, or how they set the string elevation at the nut, or what the relief is set to (and at what fret), then there's really not much of a set up at all is there?
To do a setup, totally "by feel" may be ok if you already know the "feel" of the neck. But necks, frets, fretboards all feel differently. Doing that first setup - and later tweaks - "measured by the book" really puts everything as it ought to be. Then your know its right. Then your hand has some learning to do, if it doesn't feel right, or... if any further work is needed (such as fret ends).
There are mathematical limits to string elevation, with some give or take for playing style. Even more so, those limits will quickly become evident when you bend strings in the upper frets, beyond fret 12, where the limits show up as "fretting out" on bends.
Measuring the distance from fret crown to fretboard sometimes reveals un-useful information. The real issue is the fret crowns in relation to each other. Assuming a well made fretboard, the crown height should be pretty uniform though. On a refret or older neck, where wood has had a chance to age, shrink, expand,...change.... then the gauge to measure how tall the frets are is only good for saying "we need replacement frets about this tall, or just a little taller" to make the neck feel the same as it did before (assuming the width is correct)
I read some posts ago, that Gibson uses .036 tall wire. They "used to" use wire about that tall on electrics, but stopped that in the late 70's or early 80's (you can look it up at the Les Paul Forum). The fretless-wonder LP Customs had that wire taken down to as low as .025, close to the limit of having frets work at all. Gibson had a very shallow curve to the crown as well back then, almost flat. These days, Gibson uses wire about .047-.049 tall. Thats a huge difference. They also went from wide wire, to a more narrow wire at the same time. I remember what we used to call "SG" frets, the low-wide frets that were a little taller than the LP Custom frets. They were nice to play on, but a @#$@# to bend on with heavier strings. I used to like 'em. Now I prefer .010's or .011's on taller frets. Just feels better to me. Since Fender and Gibby and most of the others have started using taller frets, it must be there are a lot of folks who feel the same way as I do.
So much for rambling... hope the OP got his problem solved.
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