French Polishing??

[Surf n Music]

I saw this article on french polishing from an article Cagey posted on Lacquer finish. I have alwaysed liked the color and finish of violins and like that you can do different shades of amber. Has any one tried this and how hard is it??

http://www.lmii.com/french-polish

 

[anorakDan]

There seem to be a few how-to videos on YouTube. Just do a search for French Polishing.

I've never done it, but I know the process involves shellac flakes, alcohol and gently applying the finish with a cotton pad. 

 

[bbl4ck]

Hey Surf n'

Ken, our good friend from Roadhouse Pickups did a beautiful French polish on a BK strat.  I don't have a link to it, but it won GOTM, so if you do a search through the past winners, it will show up.
He goes by the name Troubled Treble. 
I have always wanted to try a French polish myself.  If you take one on, be sure to post some pics of the process.
Cheers...
:rock-on:

 

[croquet hoop]

I am in the process of learning the technique. To me, the hardest part is to get the feeling of the proper mix you have to add to the pad (shellac, alcohol & oil). Some get away with shellac by brushing it then only polishing at the very end — it's a very forgiving finish that can be applied with success in a number of ways, but french polish will require a bit of practice* before getting it righ.

Mixing your own shellac from flakes is easy and recommended (shellac.net is a popular/reputable source).

Two useful references I found :

• detailed video series on french polishing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7aXBs2fJgw
• in-depth FP tutorial: www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthiers-corner/121981-french-polish-tutorial.html

Stewmac's guide is a well-put summary of the latter.


*just a few decades, according to some master craftsmen.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

I am in the process of learning the technique. To me, the hardest part is to get the feeling of the proper mix you have to add to the pad (shellac, alcohol & oil). Some get away with shellac by brushing it then only polishing at the very end — it's a very forgiving finish that can be applied with success in a number of ways, but french polish will require a bit of practice* before getting it righ.

Mixing your own shellac from flakes is easy and recommended (shellac.net is a popular/reputable source).

Two useful references I found :

• detailed video series on french polishing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7aXBs2fJgw
• in-depth FP tutorial: www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthiers-corner/121981-french-polish-tutorial.html

Stewmac's guide is a well-put summary of the latter.


*just a few decades, according to some master craftsmen.

ALL OF THE ABOVE...

And This...
if you wanna roll old school this is the site....
http://www.kramers.org/formulae.htm

I've redone two Les Pauls in this method.

it is time consuming, as is any worthwhile endeavor, but the end result is stunning.

I had to strip my LPJ on the first go round three times before I got it right...

 

[croquet hoop]

it is time consuming, as is any worthwhile endeavor, but the end result is stunning.

I cannot but agree. I have not experienced the "stunning" part yet but it is true that it a very rewarding process once you begin to get the hang of it — watching the shine build session after session and the wood grain being magnified.

What may be off-putting at first is that you have to read a fair amount of info about it, then try for yourself to see what works and what does not, go back to reading, try again to correct your mistakes, and so on. But since it does not require a dedicated space and labor-intensive equipment it's not really a big deal.

 

[Surf n Music]

Good stuff! I think I might get a little kit together and some practice wood so when the time comes to build my next guitar I will have a little experience. Lots of good tutorials, I will get to reading and watching. Thanks.

 

[klangster]

I have done quite a bit of it but would not consider myself an expert, some days are better than others. The weather is a big factor when it is hot and dry it is easier and more forgiving. Once you are on your top coats getting the right mixture is key but the "right " mixture depends on how much moisture is in the air, so some trial and lots of error seems to be part of the package. But when it is going well it is a very rewarding process. Here is a good article on the techniquehttp://www.woodfinishsupply.com/GuideToFrenchPolishing.pdf

Here are some  before and after pics of an Esp guitar I did with french polish a few years back

the pic in the middle is the most accurate color, in the end I feel like I went too many coats trying to get it perfect so it looks too thick. Some day ( way in the future when I have lots of time)I will sand it back a bit and do just a few top coats to get that classic thin french polish look.

 

[dmraco]

That looks awesome.  How durable is the finish??

 

[Surf n Music]

Hell ya Klangster you're stoked! That finish looks sick  :headbang1:

 

[klangster]

Thanks, french polished shellack is not a very durable finish though it can be touched up easily enough . It does scratch easy but this guitar being hard maple generally just the finish gets scratches ,for softer wood it could be a problem for an instrument that gets hard miles. Probably more appropriate for a classical guitar ,I don't play guitar in a band so this guitar mainly stays at home but it is definitely ready for some touch up after about three years.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

Not great in a bar setting it reacts with alcohol....

So no using it as a coaster.... :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

Doesn't do so well with water, either.

So, no sweating.

 

[croquet hoop]

I am always surprised when I read this remark about water/sweat. I remember a discussion on tdpri, which brought up the point that shellac (mixed from flakes, not the canned stuff which stays softer) is not less resistant to water than nitro. Of course, there starts to be problems when it is exposed to a significant amount of water over a period of time, but who throws his guitar under the tap?

As for alcohol, after practicing with french polishing on maple scraps, I had to work fairly hard with pure alcohol to strip the whole thing, so I don't think a few spilled drops will instantly ruin your finish as some comments suggest. If someone has documented horror stories on the subject, I'll read them with interest though.

 

[stratamania]

Not great in a bar setting it reacts with alcohol....

That's a great slogan for a drinkers T shirt  :laughing7:

 

[klangster]

I know a drop of ever-clear will take the luster of french polish but you would have to rub to remove it completely I am pretty sure beer or even whiskey will not thin it but any moisture left sitting on it for a long time will leave a cloudy spot. As to sweat I have found that on my Indian instrument that I play alot after years it has a pronounced dull spot where it touches my belly through my shirt but  again it can be polished back fairly easy. 

 

[stubhead]

The ESP is gorgeous! What stage did the dye go on and what was it? Water-based brown, did you add any red, yellow, etc.? 

Regarding durability, all the guitars from the "Golden Age"* were finished at a time when central heat in homes was extremely rare and central air non-existent. Getting a little window unit was a big deal for us, mid or late 60's sometime? Anyway, guitars went through a lot tougher time, on the average, than they do today. Dehumidifiers, humidifiers - Huh? If you poke through the ads in Vintage Guitar, time after time you'll see "factory-refinished." It wasn't for vanity or to coordination your fashion statement, it was because the best finishes Gibson/Fender/Ricky/Guild could manage (on their "budget") just cracked and fell off if you hurt it's feelings. Of course the clever-er of the counterfeiters and the dealers they work for will now fake a RE-finish, because what counterfeiter would work extra-hard when you can only get $15,000 for a Strat & less than $200,000 for an "old" Les Paul if they've been refinished? It's just GOTTA be real.... :icon_thumright:

*(CMI ate Gibson 1969, CBS ate Fender 1965, though many felt they didn't achieve total ruination till 1971 or 1973, or... whenever the year was after your Fender was built. :laughing3: )

 

[klangster]

thanks, I think the original owner stripped and then dyed then gave up before I got it in the late 90's, leaving it like the  first picture. When I finally decide to finish it I sanded it back a bit since it was grungy. There was one raw maple spot where they had cut out a bit of the lower horn I used minwax special walnut and it matched the rest perfectly so I assumed that was probably close to what was used originally. I though about adding some color but I rally did not want to muck it up too much, the shellack does add a bit an amber hue though.
  I have a "golden age " 63 Fender P bass and the finish is very thin and flaky now. I really like the way it feels but I am starting to worry about how muck of the raw alder/ash? is exposed, but I don't want to refinish it. The neck has been refinished and I suppose that and the fact that a J bass bridge pickup has been added takes most of the excessive value out of it, but that suites me just fine because besides making it better it made it so I could afford to buy it when I was 12 for $400. To this day I have never seen another P or a J bass that I like as much so even if it was worth a fortune I don't think I could sell it without regretting everyday for the rest of my life, so I would love to find a way to protect it without changing its character.

 

[stubhead]

You may actually be lucky somebody else refinished the neck, so you don't have to worry about it. If I had a 1963 Fender bass with the original finish on the neck, I would either buy a Warmoth neck to use on it and put the original in a bank vault or sell it to George Gruhn real quick because that would have to be like the last unwarped '63 Fender neck in existence. The whole reason that all those custom companies like Warwick and Kubicki and Spector and Fodera and Smith and all got rolling in the 1980's was because that was when the Fender basses' necks gave up the ghost. Nobody wanted old Fenders then, because they weren't playable - which is where the replacement neck market also got rolling. The "vintage guitar" market's dealers were lucky to be able to piggyback onto that, because the guitar necks were far less likely to warp.

 

[klangster]

Yeah I am very happy it was refinished though I did see a  stock 63 neck on ebay for like $7000 :dontknow: not sure if anyone would pay that much though. This neck is the most stable neck I own but I have switched to a lighter gauge string set lately out of caution.