First time using wood dye (sorry if asked before)

[Soloshchenko]

Hi guys. As said in the title apologies if this has been asked a million times before. I've done a fair few searches and not quite found the exact answer I need.

I've recently stripped a second hand P Bass body down to bare wood and want to refinish with a wood dye as the wood underneath is quite nice and it was so cheap I want a really cheap finish for it.

My idea at the end was to go over it in tung oil to finish it. At the minute the process I'm going for is this:

1) Apply sanding sealer.
2) Sand back to a fine grain
3) Apply a coat of water
4) Apply black wood dye (grain enhancer)
5) Sand back again
6) Apply another coat of water
7) Apply a blue dye
8) Sand back
9) Apply a second coat of blue dye
10) Sand back
11) Tung oil finish

Now, I'm sure I have this wrong somewhere! My question is, would the above process work? Would it give me good results? Have I got the order totally wrong? Is there anything else you would do?

Any input is really appreciated Warmoth finish gods! Cheers.

 

[Syntheticocean]

If I'm reading correctly you've got the sanding sealer mixed up.

2) Sand smooth with 300'ish sandpaper
3) Apply a coat of water
4) Apply black wood dye (grain enhancer)
5) Sand back again
6) Apply another coat of water
7) Apply a blue dye
8 ) Sand back
9) Apply a second coat of blue dye
10) Sand back (I don't think this is necessary unless you want a faded blue color)
10a)I think sanding sealer should go here
11) Tung oil finish I'm doing clear nitro here because from what I've read people said that the tung/tru oil finishes have a yellow/orange hue to them. I'm doing my guitar a deep sapphire blue and I don't want the topcoat ruining that.

I could be wrong, but as of tuesday morning I should be starting my Warmoth project and these are the steps I'm doing.  Good luck!

 

[dmraco]

Depending on the wood..you may not need the sealer.  I have neverd used it on Maple.

I also never used the water in between either.  It you are using water based dyes it is not needed.  I agree with synthetic...you do not need to sand back the coats of color, only those you want to enhance the grain....like the black.

I have an e-mail with detailed instructions AND photos of a finish I did.  Send me a PM with your email and I will forward.

One this I would add is cleaning with NAPTHA AFTER you sand back.

 

[Syntheticocean]

Depending on the wood..you may not need the sealer.  I have neverd used it on Maple.

I also never used the water in between either.  It you are using water based dyes it is not needed.  I agree with synthetic...you do not need to sand back the coats of color, only those you want to enhance the grain....like the black.

I have an e-mail with detailed instructions AND photos of a finish I did.  Send me a PM with your email and I will forward.

One this I would add is cleaning with NAPTHA AFTER you sand back.

I believe the reason for using the water before the first coat is to avoid color blotches. Here is what I believe is an awesome video http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=30182 that shows the procedure. in that video water is put on before the colors to help the colors have a more feathered/blended edge.

 

[Soloshchenko]

Thanks for the help guys. Synthetic, I know about the tung oil colouring issue and in fact yeah, I'm just being a cheapskate not buying some clear nitro for the final finish. Maybe I'll get myself a tin (it's bloody expensive over here!)

Thanks again and any more input is really welcomed.

 

[Syntheticocean]

You may want to look into fighting what discoloration the oil will leave. I'm not an expert color mixer, but I know if you were to mix it the right color, the slight hue that the oil  would leave could balance it to the exact blue that you want. Just like if you were mixing blue/yellow to make green, but it came out too blue, you'd put more yellow in to balance it. I'm sure with the right googling you can manage that.

I was considering an oil finish, but I didn't want to fight with the oil to get the right color. I'll be starting the dye process on mine tomorrow.

 

[Soloshchenko]

You may want to look into fighting what discoloration the oil will leave. I'm not an expert color mixer, but I know if you were to mix it the right color, the slight hue that the oil  would leave could balance it to the exact blue that you want. Just like if you were mixing blue/yellow to make green, but it came out too blue, you'd put more yellow in to balance it. I'm sure with the right googling you can manage that.

I was considering an oil finish, but I didn't want to fight with the oil to get the right color. I'll be starting the dye process on mine tomorrow.

Yeah. I do like the feel of Tung Oil but if it's going to botch up my dying job I may as well get a £15 tin of clear. Thus far the body cost me £6.50 and the neck £15 so I'm trying to keep finishing costs down!  :icon_smile:

 

[partialdoctor]

Great thread. I am planning on starting this eact process with same finish (except green) this weekend. Thanks for the info.  :rock-on:

 

[Syntheticocean]

Well, here is my dye job. I haven't finished anything past the dye since stewmac is giving me the runaround on grain filler.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16477.0 (don't mean to hijack the thread)

 

[leo12.]

If you apply sanding sealer  as your first step your dyes will not penetrate in to the timber.
Any water on top of sealer will get under that sealer at edges givimg you lifting of sealer swelling & milky
blotches.
looking at Syntheticocean@s staining video thread no sealer is applied till after staining is conplete.
Its also done on maple which is very dense (no grain pores).
I guess your body is possibily alder.
if you go water based dyes prep sand the body to 320 grit  then follow dye video with stains let dry over night
then seal with what ever you wish.

 

[Syntheticocean]

Yeah. So far my steps were

1) Wet the guitar to raise the grain and wait for it to dry then sand with 320. I did this 4 times. the 5th time I wet it there was absolutely no raised grain.
2) Dyed the guitar a nice deep black.
3) Sanded back with 320. Probably shoulda used 220 to cut through the black quicker, but a little more elbow grease and I got the job done.
4) Dyed the guitar a nice dark blue. Let the dye dry. Do it again. I did it 3 times, and then the dye was the color I wanted.

Now I'm sitting here, I have the vinyl sealer. Just haven't had the free time to washcoat. I think I'll be doing it monday morning or tuesday morning. After the sealer I'm doing a few coats of timbermate ebony until its smooth, then more coats of sealer. An awesome user on here is sending me the grain filler I need so hopefully by next friday i can start clearcoating with the nitro.

 

[leo12.]

Staining sounds fine. All grain filling should be done before staining .Not sure what "Timbermate ebony" is?

 

[bagman67]

Timbermate is a brand of water based grain filler, imported to the US from Australia.  Available in a variety of shades, including Ebony.

 

[Syntheticocean]

Staining sounds fine. All grain filling should be done before staining.

That is not entirely true.

I have the mahogany on my guitar dyed blue. I want the grain to be black. If I grainfilled before dying the desired effect would be impossible to achieve. Not to mention using dyed grain filler before sealing, will stain the surrounding wood that color as well further ruining the look I'm trying to get.