First Time DIY Finish

[ChumChum]

So some background is that I that I will be soon building my first Warmoth. To save money, I have planned to finish the guitar body my self, also for bragging rights. :glasses9: So I am planning on using an alder Iceman w/ flame or quilt (leave a comment for which you think would look better) maple top by Warmoth
I have just a couple of questions:

For bursting I understand that there are multiple ways, so how would I be able to achieve a color like this: http://www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/products/24946/1360852/original.jpg or this http://www.carvinguitars.com/guitargallery/images/full/sh550-deepblackcherryquilt-109349.jpg with burst. Also any specific paints(I was looking at the color tone ones)

I am also planning on painting the guitar back and side jet-black along with the back of the neck. Some people claim it is sticky and not worth it. However, is it possible for me to sand it down a little, keeping color with better feel. Alternatives maybe?

Finally I haven't been able to find a guide on the order painting and finishing what parts first second and so on. Can someone link or explain me the steps including the neck finishing.

Cheers! Thanks in Advance!

 

[Cagey]

First, welcome to the forum!

Second, the best treatment for finishing guitars I've seen comes from LMII. Follow that schedule, and you should get good results.

Judging by your questions, it sounds like you haven't done this sort of thing before. I might suggest that a transparent burst over a figured top is a pretty ambitious project that might not be suitable for a starting point. The schedule at the link above doesn't cover doing that particular style of finish, it's more generalized for lacquer overall. There's some stuff on YouTube of various utility. Just search "burst finishes on guitar".

Good luck, and keep in touch. Lotta talent on this board that's more than willing to help.

 

[ChumChum]

Thanks the guide provides nice detail thanks. But I still need help on thr black neck painting. I want to have it black to match the back of the guitar body. If you have any advice or ideas to keep the neck smooth and black, that would appreciated.

 

[Cagey]

If I wanted an opaque-finished neck, I'd order it finished with gloss poly from Warmoth. It's only about $90, and it'll be perfect.

But, not everybody is comfortable with glossy necks. Warmoth will do satin nitro, but it just becomes glossy after a little use. You could get an Ebony neck, but they're pretty pricey and you've indicated that you're already cost-sensitive. You could shoot gloss yourself, then rough it up afterward with an abrasive to get the satin feel, but I suspect that wouldn't look too good and again, wouldn't last.

If it must be black and have a raw, satin feel, you might want to consider "ebonizing" something. It's a chemical process that uses vinegar and steel wool to create a solution that reacts with the tannins in the wood to make it black. For example...

It works better with some woods than others; namely those that are heavy in tannins. But, on the plus side, it doesn't wear off because it's not a finish - the wood itself changes color. That means you'd have a raw neck (and its attendant feel) that stays that way. I've not tried it, so I can't say too much about it, but it looks like it might be something to consider.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I have a couple of Gibsons and Epiphones with gloss necks, and a couple of satin necks that have polished up. I don't find any of them sticky at all, but then, my hands don't sweat much at all. YMMV.

 

[ChumChum]

So I took some time and went to a near by guitar center and tried out one of the black glossy necks on a les paul. SO i decided I would use probably this on the back of the guitar, side of guitar, back of neck, headstock. : http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/ColorTone_Black_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquer.html
Also maybe have back of neck no gloss after this lacquer.

Next I'm gonna use this guide: http://diy-fever.com/guitars/staining-guitar-tops/
With these dyes http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/dyes/aniline-dyes-water-soluble
For the burst I use the spray black right? And burst comes before gloss after base color.
Also one or two more questions:
Do I need to use a filler for an Alder body w/ flame maple top and a maple neck?
Which?

Finally there is a good amount of clear gloss and everyone is saying some are btter than another, what do you guys prefer.

Thanks so much guys, alot of good people on this forum!

 

[bbl4ck]

If it must be black and have a raw, satin feel, you might want to consider "ebonizing" something. It's a chemical process that uses vinegar and steel wool to create a solution that reacts with the tannins in the wood to make it black. For example...

It works better with some woods than others; namely those that are heavy in tannins. But, on the plus side, it doesn't wear off because it's not a finish - the wood itself changes color. That means you'd have a raw neck (and its attendant feel) that stays that way. I've not tried it, so I can't say too much about it, but it looks like it might be something to consider.

I have always wanted to try the ebonizing finish!  I really like the look :glasses9:
Anybody here on the forum tried it???
:rock-on:

 

[bagman67]

I haven't seen anyone try it on this forum, probably because as suggested, it requires a tannin-rich wood to work - such as oak (not a common guitar-builder's wood).  Mahogany has tannins also, but to a lesser degree.  That said - it'd be totally worthwhile to try it on a scrap of mo-hog just to see if it's a viable approach.


If you want to ensure a decent quantity of tannin to react with your ebonizing solution, you can apply a tannic acid solution prior to the ammonia/iron/whatever solution per the schedule set forth in the article Cagey cited. 


Ammonia fuming is another approach used to lovely effect on your Stickley-type oak furniture.

 

[T.Rex]

I have a couple of Gibsons and Epiphones with gloss necks, and a couple of satin necks that have polished up. I don't find any of them sticky at all, but then, my hands don't sweat much at all. YMMV.

I've always used baby powder on my hands. It pretty much voids any difference in neck finish friction in my experience. Having unfinished or semi-porous finishes always seemed kind of unhygienic and disgusting to me. YMMV.

 

[stubhead]

Yep, these questions are giving me the willies, too. I don't know what kind of experience you have in wood finishing, electronics, basic guitar set-up... what I always tell/ask/beg people to do before one mitt even strokes one board, is to buy Dan Erlewine's "Complete Guitar Repair v3" and read every section pertaining to what you're going to be doing. Besides the fact that it pays for itself FAST - no repairman or sales person will ever be able to snow you with a bunch of BS because you know the rig yourself - the book will allow you to make a point-by-point-by-point evaluation of which aspects you already know and which aspects you have to either learn and/or farm out (the first time... :guitaristgif: )

I don't know what state you're in, but most of them have rather amazing public library systems. Not only can you check out every book on wood finishing they have on the shelves, but through the inter-library loan system, you'll be able to order up the Erlewine book for a three-week or 30 day gander at it. In Maryland it's free, but if they start wanting money - to get books - they are already getting PAID by the library... :evil4: just buy the Erlewine book to start. You probably can filch the rest off the internet, but you gotta have your filters on - there are some amazingly detailed, knowledgeable-sounding, chummy inside-secret kind of tutorials written by people who, umm... couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the sole?  And go through the Stewart-MacDonald and Luthiers Mercantile websites, note which books sound interesting, and see if your library can be induced to spit them up.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans.html
http://www.lmii.com/products/media-gifts-more/books

I know Michael Dresdner's "The New Wood Finishing Book" is pretty much biblical, IYKWIM. Finishing wood has actually gotten a whole lot easier, the past 20 years or so. And a LOT of the advice you'll unearth on the internets has to do with how a factory used to finish 250 guitars at a time, 40 years ago. People can get pretty nutso about it, which is... just fine!  :toothy12: I'm at least as nutso, just about other things. I know for sure that a lot of us here were forced to learn how to do one thing or another to guitars because we couldn't afford to pay somebody, especially to do things that we could teach/figure out ourselves. But it's biting off a mighty big chaw to start from scratch with no "transfer credits". I don't know your age, living sitchoo, etc.; but this might be a great opportunity to start digging out some people to help with the education, too... school? Family? Somehow or another I've managed to begin the early stages of creeping up on the initial preparatory stages of starting to get ready to be AN OLD FART myself, but I must know a friggin' dozen old farts with workrooms full of tools, just staring at the tube instead because they don't know what to make... all their grandchildren got tired of wood pulltoys when they got to be 15 or 18. Kids today.... :dontknow: