First time builder. (Well first time the right way)

[seagro]

So I am easing my way into the planning of my custom bass project.  I have a list of things I like about all of my production basses and what I don't about them all.  I also have what I think I did wrong on my last assembly bass made from parts from that Famous MFG in southern CAL.  You know the one everyone liscenses parts for?  Anyways, I had the opportunity to do a "Shoot out" between a poplar bodied Jazz V and an alder bodied Jazz V.  I then compared the sounds against my Mahoganied bodied 12 string bass and 6 string basses.

Here are the conclusions I have come up with, I love the string tension and the tone associated with the 35" scale of my bolt on Mahogany bodied, maple walnut striped rosewood fretboard 6 string.  I am also very happy with the electronics, so my project will be using the big brother to that bassess electronics and pickups.

Now here are the two details I get stymied on.  I suffer a bit of hand fatigue playing three sets on that six string.  I presume it is less to do with the scale and more to do with the neck radius.  The 6 string has a really flat radius compared to my Jazz V's.  Which I can play all night and hit with encores.  Because of the fatigue I am torn between a more Fender like radius and just building a Deluxe 5.  Also I love the feel of walnut.  (The tacticle sense)  But I am leary to build an all Walnut body until I can hear one.  I understand that the Victor Bailey series Jazz bass was basically a mahogany core with a Koa top.  I have heard one of those and was not dissapointed.  So I am leaning towards a Mahogany / Walnut lam.


Any suggestions on where I could hear a Walnut bodied Jazz?  Where does it fall in the scheme of things?  I consider Alder an excellent classic sound.  And I consider Mahogany an excellent "Modern" sound.  Ideally I want the best of both worlds a rich clear tone.  Suggestions?

 

[MUYFUE]

Theres a guy on here who has like 6 diff Warmoth Geckos in various combos...tubby.twins
Ceck out the Gecko Thread and you'll sse the variety, perhaps speak to him to get some more advice.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Walnut is going to be brighter than Ash, warmer than Maple.  Or course this is when you've got a labcoat and goggles on.  I don't know what that would translate to in the real world.  You've got your electronics picked out, but keep in mind they will sound different in a different instrument.  Also, while Maple is bright, a Rickenbacker bass is an all maple body and neck, and they sound very warm.  So with a Walnut body, there's things like strings, p'ups, amp EQ, all those other variables may effect tone more than the body wood.  And this is before your fingers touch it.

 

[bpmorton777]

I never thought of Chris Squire's bass as sounding warm at all :icon_scratch:

Brian

 

[tubby.twins]

Walnut is going to be brighter than Ash, warmer than Maple.  Or course this is when you've got a labcoat and goggles on.  I don't know what that would translate to in the real world. 

Good point.  My "real world" experience is that the neck and body woods don't matter nearly as much as the pickups, electronics, and frets (or fingerboard wood if fretless).  I'm the "6 gecko guy" mentioned earlier, and I've done quite a few experiments on pickups.  You'd be surprised how much these affect the sound when other factors don't change.

If you have a budget to experiment, don't be afraid to do so.  My recommendation for bass body woods is to find one that looks nice, and isn't too heavy to play comfortably.

Regarding fretboard radius, I've owned several "flatter" radius basses (e.g. Carvin, Modulus, Zon) and I think I prefer the 14" radius of my Gecko basses.  A rounder radius is usually more comfortable, and as you've noticed, it is something you can play for hours.  It seems to be shaped more naturally for hand movement.  The Deluxe 5 necks have a 10" radius as a standard, which sounds nice, but I haven't actually played one yet.

But this could be due to other factors as well - the shape of the neck profile is one.  Another is the height of the nut and bridge, which affects the force required to press down the strings.  My Gecko basses all have fairly low nuts, so they're easy to fret and don't make my hands tired.  My Zon bass, on the other hand, has a fairly high nut and a higher bridge, so it takes more force to fret the notes, especially at the lowest few frets.

String types can play into this as well.  I've found that round-core roundwound strings are easier to play since they are more flexible than hex-core roundwounds.  My favorite strings are DR Sunbeams, but I've tried other brands and I enjoyed them for different reasons.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I never thought of Chris Squire's bass as sounding warm at all :icon_scratch:

Brian

McCartney's Ric years though?  Chris had a stereo output, not unusual for Rics, and he'd send each pickup to a different rig with different effects.

 

[seagro]

Well I appreciate the responses.  Perhaps I am just pickier then the average player, but I can definately tell the difference between things like fretboard woods, body woods, and neck woods.  I do realize the electronics is a large part of the sound as well.  Perhaps I notice these things since most of the time I practice my instruments accoustically.  Sure I would prefer to plug in, but I just don't feel the urge to wake my kids up with my rig.

As far as body woods, my band noticed it very quickly when I took off the Alder deluxe and put on the Poplar deluxe.  Both of them were production models, and it was painfully obvious that the Alder had a much more balanced sound in the mix compared to the Poplar.  It was like taking a blanket off of an amp.  The sounds were much less muddy, and I could I could run my signal hotter because I had more headroom.  From my own experience it seemed like Mahogany gave me a clear but slightly "scooped" sound compared to the Alder.  The alder felt like very, Fender to me.  Its hard to put my finger on.  I do biamp my rig so I can appreciate the stereo sound of Chris Squire.  On a side note, I did enjoy the Chris Squire model Rick.  I found the "horshoe" pickup on it to be very delightfully round.  The only thing that has kept me nervous about Ricks are how they feel so rather frail.  I know its not a frail instrument by any stretch.  I just find myself worrying that something is going to fall off in my hands.  It have gotten a similar vibe out of my Fenders for years too.  I guess I am just not as concerned about something breaking.

So on the wood discussion, am I correct in saying I should just take the plunge and that regardless of choosing Alder, Mahogany, or Walnut I will probably find all of them to be excellent wood choices with their own unique "flavors"?  This whole experience with Poplar has me cringing I guess.  By itself I found Poplar to sound great.  It wasn't until I played it side by side with the Alder model did I begin cringing.  For me it was as pronounced a difference as basswood to mahogany on a guitar.  (I have always found it to be as pronounced of a differene as a that  between a single coil and a humbucker.)

 

[tubby.twins]

Seagro,

I've got an idea.  Why not try to swap the pickups between your Alder and Poplar Jazz V basses (if they'll fit) and see if you still have the same opinion of their sounds after the swap?

 

[tfarny]

Seagro, this board is filled with guys who are a lot pickier than the average player, and have done a lot of A/B testing. There's pretty large number of the more experienced guys, including a couple of custom builders, who say the sound is in the pups. That has been my experience as well. I have a poplar bodied strat with cheap Bill lawrence pickups that sounds pretty amazing, as good as any strat I've ever heard, and I have a great alder bodied strat as well - both have maple necks, hardtails, and vintage output SC pups.

One thing that people get tripped up on is taking a difference between two guitars and attributing it to the SPECIES of the wood - when two woods of the same species differing in other respects will likely be just as different. That is, for electric instruments I don't think you can say 'alder has X sound while poplar has Y sound' - it depends on other characteristics unique to the individual piece. Ken Warmoth has done plenty of testing, I'd imagine, and there is a quote of him floating around that says basically, who knows, you can't predict based on species.

 

[seagro]

I like the suggestions of swapping the pickups between the alder bass and one of my two poplar ones.  It should fit since the only difference between the two poplar models is I upgrated it to SCN to see if that was what was different.  I am sure you guys are right and I am associating something much more complicated to just one attribute.  Even the quality of a setup can make a world of difference doesn't it?

What do you guys think about dual humbuckers, like a Music Man X2?

I really do appreciate all of this.