First Ever Warmoth Project - Progress Made....

[Maka491]

Some more progress today. I managed to finish the grain filling and sanding. Two goes at it seemed to do the job. She was super-smooth after a good go with 240, then 320 and a little bit of 400.

I had to wood fill a few bumps here and there but they are all undetectable now.

Front

Back

Next I'm going to be coating with first light coat of Tung Oil. Now I've reached this stage I can hardly stop myself from doing more but I will wait and not rush it

I was wondering if I should hit it with a coat of sanding sealer first? Any ideas anyone?

 

[Great Ape]

I've used a couple of coats of sanding sealer on my unfinished bodies prior to either tung or tru-oil and it's worked very well; I think it insures a more even application of the oil, as is essentially eliminates different absorption characteristics in the body grain. No blotching, y'know?

 

[Maka491]

As I was saying in Tonars thread, I have been having a couple of small issues.

I've been unable to get some grain to fill and after oiling with Tung for a few days, I am getting some 'stains' here and there. These are not very big issues for me but I was wondering if I am doing something wrong. When I grain-filled I made sure to let it sit in a warm room and dry overnight.

As far as the staining is concerned you can see this on the back of the body on the left side and the belly-cut where they appear much lighter in colour as well as what seems to be like oil blotching. This also happens on the horns.

Here are some pics.

 

[Great Ape]

Ummmm...no sanding sealer, huh?

 

[Maka491]

Sanding sealer is not used by everyone for good finishes. I have read equal arguments for using or not using it.

I did however do 3 coats of filler and also went over the stubborn bits at least another 3 times. I suspect it was the consistency of my last few goes as I thinned the filler a bit. Cagey was saying that grain filler is superfine as it is,s o maybe I should have gone straight with it and no thinners at all.

Any suggestions for rectifying now I have applied tung-oil?

Not a big issue if not fixable as its an oil finish and not meant to be a project aimed at perfect looks.

 

[Great Ape]

No, not everyone does use it for good finishes, but YOU would have gotten a "good" finish if you'd used it prior to applying Tung Oil...

 

[Maka491]

Thanks for pointing this out. However your comment is not particularly helpful or constructive in suggesting a remedy.

Can anyone who has experienced a similar issue contribute towards a possible solution?

 

[bagman67]

You might research what solvent will dissolve tung oil, and apply that to the body, and then start with the washcoat once it's clean.

 

[Maka491]

Thanks Bagman. I will try a couple of things starting with thinner. I will test it on a small area first but as I said its not a major issue. This is my first project and I am happy to make mistakes and learn. Especially when theres some great folks here to help along.

Thanks again.

 

[bagman67]

When all else fails, alas, there's always sandpaper.


GOod luck, brother.

 

[Cagey]

Looking around, I'm finding that once you start down the oil finish road, there's not really a reverse gear available to you. Thinners such as turpentine or naptha will strip it, but not completely. You have to sand beyond that. Then, it's a penetrating finish so you're not going to get into the grain to remove all traces, which means there's no restart with a different product.

I'm reminded once again why I don't mess with oil finishes. But, more than once I read that unlike most finishes, often the way to proceed with a less-than-perfect oil finish is to continue on. Successive applications will even things out, and will give you more time to drink beer. As Ben Franklin supposedly said, "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." <grin>

 

[Maka491]

Lol on the Ben quote.

I have tried on a small area with turpentine, but it made little difference. I think tou are probably right that I should just add more oil as I dont think its worth spending time and energy sanding all the way back to bare wood. Besides, I was looking at it this morning and its kinda growing on me with the oil stains here and there as it gives it a certain distressed look.

I will try and add more oil only to the lighter areas to see if they even out a bit but otherwise I should be happy with it.

On another note, its super smooth to the touch so it's on its way to being finished in the next few weeks and assembled with the beautiful birdseye maple and rosewood neck.

Its going to be put together with Lollars, Graph tech saddles and string tree as well a schaller locking tuners. A very good luthier will then set it up and the end sounding result should be good.

Sorry for babbling on, but I'm super excited in a noob way!  :hello2:

 

[Cagey]

I was looking at it this morning and its kinda growing on me with the oil stains here and there as it gives it a certain distressed look.

Sometimes we're our own worst critics. More than once I've found myself picking microscopic nits, which if I bring up in public usually results in more strange looks at me than the nearly imaginary flaw(s). So, carry on. This is probably not going to be your only rodeo; you'll get plenty of chances to vindicate yourself, if necessary.

 

[Maka491]

Well said Cagey.

Thank you for the support. Yourself and others here have been very helpful. I'm loving these boards as they are friendly and full with a wealth of valuable information.

Great Ape, your finish looks brilliant and looking back of course I can see you suggested the sealer, so a belated thank you for that even if I decided against it

I will post pics in the next couple fo days with the progress.

One question I have about the few open grains is, is it too late to try again to fill those spots with some filler? Will the filler stick with the tung oil in there (assuming the oil has dried first of course).

thanks again everyone for your input.

 

[Cagey]

One question I have about the few open grains is, is it too late to try again to fill those spots with some filler? Will the filler stick with the tung oil in there (assuming the oil has dried first of course).

Fillers use either water or an organic solvent such as mineral spirits or alcohol as a vehicle. Oil will repel water, and dissolve in the presence of an organic solvent. So, my guess would be: no. You're done with "filler" products. But, time/patience/elbow grease will work. As with most finishes, each time the finish is dry, you sand it back. Eventually, the low spots that your abrasive can't touch will get higher until the entire surface is flat/even. Once it's there, you change to progressively finer abrasives to polish it up. It adds a lot of time to the job, which is what grain fillers are designed to eliminate, but I think you're past that now.

 

[Cagey]

I should add that it's important that you use a hard rubber sanding block as much as possible. Your fingers are too squishy and using those on their own to drive the sandpaper will follow imperfections. The end result is you don't "top-off" and thus not "raise" the low points of the finish with your abrasive, you attack it all and it doesn't level as well as it could.

 

[Maka491]

Thanks Cagey,

I always use a block sander as far back as my car bodyworks days. I have a lot to learn about the treatment of wood yet and this is all a great experience. I have worked with fiber-glass as well but this is still a different kettle of fish

What grits do you recommend for sanding back between layers of finish?

 

[Cagey]

A lot of people use 220 and get good results, but I use 320. It's slower, and I may go through a bit more paper as it loads up and wears faster, but I'd rather cut more slowly. Because of the sharper edges in some places, it's very easy on guitar parts to to cut past your top coat (sometimes even to the base), which is enough to piss off a saint when you're trying to "build" a finish. On the plus side, with coarser grits you sometimes get to invent new cuss words/phrases <grin>

It depends on how aggressive you are in combination with the abrasive, and how much time you want to spend. If you've done it a million times, you can probably go coarser and get away with it, so you save yourself some time and clean it up in the end. You get a feel for it. But, as you probably already know, that's true of any finish work. All the instruction in the world won't help you. You need to screw some parts up.

 

[Scuffcakes]

What grits do you recommend for sanding back between layers of finish?

I use a 3M Sandblaster sanding sponge in 320 grit between coats.

It's aggressive enough to level things out but not so much that mistakes are easy.  When it starts to load up, I use an old toothbrush to scrub it clean again.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

A lot of people use 220 and get good results, but I use 320.

+1

I'm doing a Tru-Oil finish on an Alder body. I originally planned to paint it Olympic White and hit it with sanding sealer I got locally here in Japan. But, the sealer showed me what a truly interesting piece of Alder this was (it has lots of character), so decided to change to Tru-Oil. Unfortunately, the first coat of Tru-Oil showed me the error of my ways! I am not sure if it was something with the local sanding sealer, or what, but the Tru-Oil seemed to turn the sealer white in some areas.! Ouch!  :doh:

After a fighting with it a bit, I had to sand it bare; actually twice so far. I just refinished it last night and it looks like I still have a couple of small spots I will have to sand again, but I think I finally got it headed the right direction finally.  :confused4: Pretty sure the problem is this sealer I got.

Anywho, that was a long way around to get to my point which is I really don't see any reason for sealer under any oil finish! You run the chance of weird problems like mine, and at best what do you get???  :dontknow:  Obviously, I'm no expert, but over many years I've found that 3 good coats of tung oil or Tru-Oil will usually fill most imperfections.  I will sometimes grain fill before an oil finish when needed, but not often. I typically will do 4 to 5 coats or more total, with only a light rough up in between the later coats, and I can usually get a close to glass look.  :dontknow:

Anyway, I think Cagey's pretty much got the best advice on fixing your problem. Good luck on it!