First build plan...thoughts?

[Logrinn]

That Ultra Switch is crazy.  I feel as though I'd forget what position was supposed to be where. 

I don't know ... I was thinking perhaps you could work it as a gearstick in a car (now, if you drive automatic, then that wouldn't mean much ... :icon_jokercolor

With the Ultra Switch, one solution could perhaps be to have the pickups wired normally in the up, middle and down position "to the right" and have them split (or parallel) in the down, middle and up position "to the left".
That way you'd still be familiar with the up/middle/down way of thinking, but just have two versions of that, ie to the left and to the right, with one having normal wiring and the other split or parallel wiring.

 

[Fat Pete]

...The rotary seems more intuitive to me if I could find rotary switches that would fit in place of the 3rd and 4th pots...

Could you use this sort of thing, rather than the more trad multi-wafer type?

 

[Sovereign_13]

I do, in fact, drive a manual-transmission car.  But I think I'd rather have something to independently control the mode of each pickup, rather than trying to make one switch do all the work.

That sort of rotary was what I was envisioning originally, though not that one exactly (that is a very long pot shaft).  I'm sure I can dig up a 3+ position rotary that would accept the same type of knob as the normal volume and tone pots.  I'm all about those camouflaged controls.  Although a concentric-type rotary that controls both pickups would also be neat.

Although the 2-pole multi-wafer type you find on StewMac wouldn't be terrible to use.  I'd just wire up two of them, instead of all on one.

 

[Fat Pete]

...That sort of rotary was what I was envisioning originally, though not that one exactly (that is a very long pot shaft).  I'm sure I can dig up a 3+ position rotary that would accept the same type of knob as the normal volume and tone pots...

The shaft is only plastic - about 2 seconds work with a hacksaw - and would work with grub-screw type guitar knobs, just not splined ones. The threaded bushing is too short for rear-routed bodies too.

I'd be interested to know myself, from our resident electronics gurus, if this type of switch is considered suitable for guitars. I don't suppose they're as solid as the metal-shafted ones, but any other negatives? (I'm assuming you'd want make before break?)

 

[Cagey]

That type of switch isn't used in guitars very often, though that could just be inertia. Guitarists are often loathe to change, even when it's in their best interests. But, another reason might be logistical. It's not as easy to see where a switch like that is set, compared to toggles/blades/rocker switches. Because you'd have to check it before you switched it, you lose valuable time you maybe can't spare in the middle of a live performance.

As for the synthetic shaft, that's likely for electrical isolation purposes and I doubt if its mechanical properties would be any kind of liability in a guitar. The amount of force required to break the thing is going to do other damage as well, which would likely be exacerbated rather than mitigated by a more robust switch.

A final argument against that kind of switch might be availability. Toggles are as common as dirt, and while the blade-type switches probably aren't stocked as often at electronics supply houses, they're certainly ubiquitious at music stores. Rotary switches? Not so much. So, if you have an emergency, you may be ordering a switch from some central warehouse and waiting on delivery rather than picking one up from some local supplier.

 

[Sovereign_13]

PRS used rotary switches for pickup selection for awhile, but they seem to have stopped that.  I suspect for reasoning very similar to Cagey's.

A standard SPDT on-on-on toggle, while noticeably not a "standard" control on a Tele Deluxe, might just be simpler to operate in the long run.  In my mind, you just point the toggle toward the coil you want.  So I guess it's really a question of "am I willing to use something less conventional to get the aesthetic I want".  I suppose I could always try the rotary and switch it out if I don't like it.

 

[bagman67]

It's not as easy to see where a switch like that is set, compared to toggles/blades/rocker switches.

Three words:  Chicken. Head. Knob.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Three words:  Chicken. Head. Knob.

:icon_scratch: On an amp, sure.  On a Telecaster?  :-\  Eh, to each his own, I guess.

Still not quite as intuitive as a toggle, I think, since the knob doesn't actually point to anything.

If you really wanted to get crazy, you rig up something with LEDs or some such indicator that lights up in accordance with what position you're in.  Like the Gibson robot tuner thing except, you know, helpful.

 

[bagman67]

Well, there's always Gibson ES-345 approach, which would work on a rear-routed body with an extra hole for the rotary switch.

 

[Cagey]

The chicken head knobs have been used in the past on one of the few guitars that uses a rotary switch, Gibson's ES-355 (BB King's favorite). It's a good solution for visibility and tactile reasons, but their improved visibility is mainly apparent from a position most guitar players are rarely in while playing, which is face-on to the instrument. When it's hanging down in front of you or sitting on your lap, you basically get a side view of everything on the face of the instrument, so the knob's unique shape isn't so obvious.

Edit: Ah, you beat me to it. That's the one.

 

[Logrinn]

Fender used a rotary switch on the Sergio Vallin signature, with Mustang/Jazz bass type knobs:

Maybe could be an alternative?

 

[Sovereign_13]

I just meant I don't particularly care for the look of [chicken head knobs] on a guitar.  They look fine on amps, though (I have some on the amp build I'm working on).

I feel as though if you're bending over the guitar to work the controls, you could make that work.  I wasn't planning on doing a rear-routed instrument anyway, so making it work on a rear-route isn't critical.  Mostly I was trying to avoid extra holes in the pickguard.

I'm not opposed to the rotary switch on principle, just following the logic as to why toggles are more widely used.  I'll probably end up trying the rotary and switching to toggles if I find them difficult to work with.

That's an interesting guitar...sort of a Jazzmaster/Stratocaster hybrid.

 

[BigSteve22]

Juat as a point of information, the rotary switch I used in my JM was a Electroswitch C4D0604N-A, 6P4T split between 2 decks.

It's available from Allied Electronics, ( https://www.alliedelec.com/electroswitch-inc-c4d0604n-a/70152417/ ),for about $23 plus shipping. (All in, it cost me about $37 includung taxes in NY.) It has a .025" shaft that accepts any 1/4" knob with a set screw. I used a Q-Parts knob and drilled a small recess in the dome which I filled with silver paint to act as a pointer. The switch is definitely stiffer than most switches usually mounted in a guitar, and it requires a firm grip so I wouldn't want to try switching modes in the middle of a tune.

If you do decide to go this way, PM me and I'll send you the wiring diagram.

 

[Wizard of Wailing]

    I don't know what finish you're getting  on the necks but I like the satin nitro (with the vintage tint).  I just got three new necks with that finish and love the feel much more than my gloss finished necks (and more than roasted maple).  Also I'd recommend looking into stainless steel frets unless you're already completely sold on nickel.  I like the cream pickguard idea.  I have one on my 3 burst strat and it makes the guitar stand out from the usual burst models.

 

[Sovereign_13]

My original plan was to use nickel 6130 fret wire (I think I said 6150 in the original post), but after reading around on this forum, I'm leaning toward stainless 6105.  Which, I realize, is almost a complete 180 but lots of people like the 6105 wire, and I like what I'm reading about stainless frets.

I haven't quite decided on pickguard color just yet.  I keep waffling between cream, white, black, and tortoise. 

 

[Cagey]

I agonized a bit about stainless steel frets the first time I tried them, but there's nothing to worry about and good reasons to be excited about it. They feel/play substantially better, last dramatically longer, and don't affect the sound of the instrument. Once you have a neck fretted that way, you'll wonder why everybody doesn't use them.

The reason for that is manufacturers/techs have issues with them in that they're harder to work with than the traditional nickel/silver fretwire. It's a pretty hard alloy so they'll prematurely wear traditional fretworking tools, in some cases rendering them nearly useless before you can even finish the first neck. Most techs will charge an extra $150 or so on a re-fret if you want stainless or gold(EVO) wire because they're charging for the tools they're going to have to replace, as well as the extra time involved.

That wire also doesn't "give" or bend easily, so fretting gets a little more tedious on compound radius necks as each fret has to be radiused for its position on the neck. Otherwise, you get a lotta springback that can only be fixed by removing, re-radiusing then reinstalling the offending fret. No fun. Oddly enough, this is a bigger issue for manufacturers than it is for techs, as they use automated fretting tools that depend on the fretwire being soft enough to be somewhat conformal to the neck radius. Those auto-feed/cut tools make initial installation a 3 minute job for the whole neck. But, if every fret is unique, those tools are useless and fretting becomes a manual (read: expensive) operation.

Then, leveling, crowning, dressing and polishing takes a little longer. Where a lick and a promise works on nickel/silver wire, stainless wants some elbow grease.

All of those things mean a higher cost of entry. But, that's just on the initial installation/setup, and how much higher depends on whether the folks who do that work have made the investment in the tools/procedures to overcome those hardships. Tools exist that will deal with stainless wire without destroying themselves in the process. Custom radiusing for compound radius necks can be dealt with by pre-radiusing/cutting in bulk. It's not that tough, and I think we'll see stainless fretted necks in increasing numbers as time goes on. They're just too nice.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Stainless definitely seems like it's well-liked by most everyone who's used it.  I reckon smaller companies looking to differentiate themselves might consider offering stainless steel on some of their upscale models.

As for the finish, I was thinking satin all around (neck and body).  Was originally going to go with just clear satin on the neck, but I'll check out the vintage tint more closely.  Might go better with the sort of "vintage look" black-brown-yellow burst on the body.

Does anyone know what size/type of shaft is taken by the bonnet-style knobs that Warmoth sells?  They mention that a standard 1/4" split-shaft needs to be "adjusted" to fit the knobs, which leads me to believe they're sized for a 6mm shaft (1/4" is 6.35mm).  They appear to have some knurling on the inside, but I was wondering if they wouldn't fit a 6mm round shaft without slipping.

 

[TBurst Std]

I would not use a knurled knob on a solid shaft.  Even though you are resizing down, only half the knob is making contact with the shaft.

 

[Cagey]

If nobody answers, call Warmoth. It'll be a quick call - their sales guys are usually pretty knowledgeable.

A few months back I had a situation that forced me to do some research trying to nail down what's what and from whom as far as pots/knobs go, and it was quite frustrating. Suppliers will often note the shaft size, but rarely how many splines are on the pot shaft or in the knob's mounting hole. Makes it tough to get things to match up.

 

[Sovereign_13]

I might be kind of stuck with the StewMac PRS/Varitone rotary switch if I want to use those same bonnet knobs everywhere, then.  It's the only one I've found that has the standard 1/4" or 6mm (it doesn't say exactly) knurled split shaft and is similar in overall size to a typical pot.

Which is fine, they're pretty inexpensive as rotary switches go (about $11 on the website).

But it seems I'll be adding to my list of sales department calls just so I can nail down all the fine details.

One last question, I think: I assume it's more cost effective (shipping-wise) to order all the stuff at once?  Or is that not the case here?