First build plan...thoughts?

[Sovereign_13]

Hello, all!  Newbie here.  I'm starting to put together a plan for my first Warmoth build and was curious if anyone had any insights/thoughts/general opinions.  Who am I kidding...this is the Internet.  Everyone has opinions.  Lay 'em on me.

The overall plan:

• Swamp ash body (no laminate)
• Two-humbucker route
• Black-brown-yellow burst with matching or black back
• 24.75" scale conversion neck
• Maple neck with rosewood fretboard, standard thin contour
• 6150 nickel fret wire
• Seymour Duncan P-Rails neck pickup
• One of the control knobs will be replaced with a SPDT toggle to control the P-Rails mode

The undecided bits:

• Telecaster Deluxe vs Stratocaster body
• Bridge pickup (Possibly a SD JB, maybe another P-Rail?)
• Pickguard color (leaning toward "cream")
• Bridge design (definitely hardtail, but Tune-O-Matic vs Narrow Strat Flat Mount)

And of course all the relevant (chrome) hardware.  I play mostly rock, some alternative/punk type stuff (Rise Against, Blink-182), occasionally some heavier stuff but I have other guitars for that.

Thoughts?  Constructive criticism?  Things I should know before I assume this is all copasetic?

Also, before anyone says "Why don't you just build a LP/Regal?" I'm kind of "meh" on that body style.  I've always liked Teles, though the Strat body style is more comfortable IMO.  That's why.

 

[Logrinn]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Two thoughts:
I might be wrong but I would assume that a JB isn't balanced with a P-Rail. If you'd put the JB in the neck position, then, yes, maybe ...
Secondly, I'd go with the American std hardtail as that is more narrow than the Narrow Strat Flat Mount, ie closer to a TOM. I got the American std hardtail on my two builds for this very reason.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Thanks for the response!  I haven't looked too in-depth at the pickups for the bridge (nor will I be moving on this until my amp is finished...it's been sitting on my desk for like a year, waiting to be put together).  If all else fails, I may just up and call the folks at Seymour Duncan and ask them what they think.  I just know the JB is a hugely popular bridge pickup.

I guess I was under the impression that the Standard Hardtail would have string spacing like the tremolo bridges do, and that the Narrow would better line up with a conventional PAF humbucker.  Warmoth's site says we're both right (sort of).  The Narrow bridge is narrower than the vintage bridge, but wider than the modern Standard bridges.  Both the Standard Hardtail and the Standard Tremolo have 2.08" spacing, so I'll need a trembucker model in either case.  Good catch!

 

[rgand]

I heartily second the Am Std hardtail bridge. I also suggest two P-rails. I built a Jazzmaster with the Am Std bridge and two P-rails. You have lots of tonal choices that way. You can wire them to give you humbuckers, P-rails, single coils (kind of stratty sounding) and humbuckers in series for that full sound.

Oh, Yeah, I'd go with the Tele Deluxe because your controls will be well out of the way. Either will sound good and if you prefer one over the other then go that route.

 

[Sovereign_13]

I've thought about just using a P-Rails set, but I'm not married to the idea just yet.

I use my pickups in reverse of the "intended" (or at least the labeled) use... bridge for rhythm, mostly, and neck for leads.  The P-Rails idea was to let me play with single-coil and P90-ish lead tones, in addition to the usual humbucker stuff.  For rhythm stuff, I generally stick to bridge or middle position, and it's usually a humbucker sound.  I suppose I could always start with a P-Rails set, and if I find myself just not using the bridge options, swap it out for a dedicated HB model (or just hardwire it).

That's two for the Am. Std. bridge, which I think I like better than the idea of using a TOM-style bridge (at least on an S- or T-style body).

I've always really liked the Tele, not sure why.  The Chris Shiflett Tele Deluxe is what got me looking at Warmoth since the CSTD has the specs I like but no good colors and the standard Tele Deluxe has good colors, but funky Wide-Range Humbuckers and an all-maple neck.  Price is comparable in this case, so why not get what I actually want?

 

[rgand]

Price is comparable in this case, so why not get what I actually want?

Definitely wise thinking. You fit in fine, here.  :icon_thumright:

 

[BigSteve22]

Price is comparable in this case, so why not get what I actually want?

Definitely wise thinking. You fit in fine, here.  :icon_thumright:

Gotta second both of those thoughts. You could buy a Fender, but to get even close to the options you get from Warmoth, you'd pay twice the price, and that's if you even could find what you really wanted from Fender! (And let's face it, planning an entirely custom spec'd guitar is great fun.) Welcome to the addiction.  :blob7:

And as a side note, let me say that I really love my P-Rails. Like Rgand said, it's like getting 4 different sets of pups at once. Mine are wired as he described, and the versatility is unreal.   

 

[Sovereign_13]

Price is comparable in this case, so why not get what I actually want?

Definitely wise thinking. You fit in fine, here.  :icon_thumright:

Welcome to the addiction.  :blob7: 

My wife will be thrilled.  More projects to sit in pieces on my desk/bench.  :laughing7:  Although I can't see myself letting a beautiful instrument languish in pieces.  Amps are a little different...they take longer to be rewarding.  And they're generally much less pretty.

Glad to hear the P-Rails getting some love...I can't say I've heard anything about them, other than product descriptions.  I thought they were a cool idea when they came out, but at that point, I had just taken the Triple Shots off my PRS SE and wasn't in a hurry to go back to complex switching schemes.  The idea of even having 3 or 4 available tone options in one position is very appealing to me in a #1 guitar.

 

[BigSteve22]

Switching doesn't need to be all that complex. I used a rotary switch as a mode selector. One knob gives me P-90's, Rails, open sounding mid scooped PAF sounding parallel HB's, or full on series HB's. That's a lot of different tones from one set of pups, controlled by one knob!

 

[Sovereign_13]

A rotary in place of a toggle?  Or in addition?  Wiring the Tele Deluxe with a master volume and tone and a rotary selector for each pickup could be a neat, subtle way of achieving switching.  I'm not a huge fan of extra holes, for whatever reason.  I like my guitars to be "sleepers".

 

[ghotiphry]

I've got a thing about pickguards.  Whatever you order, also get a black/white/black and a tortoise.  They are cheap and can change the entire "look" to the guitar.  You can switch them out with your mood.

 

[rgand]

I did my P-rails switching with two slide switches. So you can do it with 1) a rotary switch 2) two mini toggles, 3) two slide switches or 4) two push pull pots. All work great so you can choose how you want it.

 

[Zhaezzy]

    I guess someone has to have a contrary opinion.  I like the wider vintage flatmount it is nice for getting your fingers in there and playing. I have two guitars with that bridge and like the wider spacing.

      I like the idea of using p-rails But having two with multiple options leads to switch paralysis. Make it so you know at a glance what options you have selected. If you have too many options you get to a point where you don't know what the is switched on and off.  My earlier builds had more switching now I try to keep it as simple as I can to get the sounds I want. If you have a humbucker that does not sound good tapped then don't tap it.

 

[Sovereign_13]

I'm not opposed to wider string spacing, but I'm concerned that, with the shorter scale, the alignment of strings on pole pieces will already be a little off using a standard 2.08" spacing.  Using a wider-spaced bridge might exacerbate the problem.

I know what you mean about switch paralysis, I had that problem with my Triple Shots.  The switch positions weren't particularly intuitive.  I think a 3- or 4- position switch, whether slide or rotary, will be easier to work with.

Interesting thought about the pickguards.  I really liked the cream on the Strat body, but the tortoise shell on the Tele.

I was thinking swamp ash for the body, but will it be too light with the shorter-scale neck?  I've read that they're considerably heavier with the double truss rod.

 

[Logrinn]

Perhaps an Ultra Switch would give you the options you need.

 

[Cagey]

I wouldn't worry about the string vs. pole piece alignment too much. It really makes little difference unless it's way off. "F-spaced" pickups are more of an aesthetic adjustment than a sonic one. What you do want to pay attention to is string spacing, as it can interfere with your playing comfort. All Warmoth necks are 2 3/16" wide at the heel (except the "superwide" versions), so that means you don't want your string spacing to be much more than 2" from low to high E at the last fret or you'll find yourself pushing/pulling strings off the 'board all the time. That means you need a bridge with "modern" (2 1/8") saddle spacing from low to high E. The "vintage" (2 7/32") spaced bridges are for old, used, worn out, dysfunctional guitars. I'm sure you'd be quite disappointed if you installed one of those on a Warmoth body.

 

[BigSteve22]

A rotary in place of a toggle?  Or in addition? 

In addition. It's got a Master Volume, Master Tone, Gibson style toggle P/U selector, (Neck, Bridge, or Both), and the Rotary switch to change P/U mode, (P-90, Rail, HB). (The rotary switch is in the lower horn.) To keep it simple, the rotary switches both pups to the chosen mode at the same time. They are not individually selectable. (They are, however, wired to separate decks to keep the signals discrete.) I considered the SD switchable rings, but decided against them because I didn't trust the reliability of those tiny plastic slide switches. The pups are fitted with plastic covers for no other reason than I liked the way they look. All in, still fewer controls than a standard JM.

 

[Cagey]

I considered the SD switchable rings, but decided against them because I didn't trust the reliability of those tiny plastic slide switches.

I installed a set of those "Triple Shot" rings on a customer's guitar, and wouldn't recommend them. In fact, I had to replace one before I even delivered the thing. Although, to be fair, it wasn't because it failed, it was because I made a mistake I couldn't recover from due to the unrepairability of the things. They're just super-flimsy, and I would not expect them to last any length of time under regular use. The switches are sub-sub-miniature things like you'd see buried on an internal PC board for configuration purposes, where you'd switch them maybe twice or three times in their life. On the face of a guitar? No.

 

[MikeW]

I'm going to jump in here with a quick note on the JB. Very nice pickup but you have to know what you're getting into with it.

1. It's very hot and has a strong mid-range to it. It's great for cutting through the mix for leads, especially if you're into heavier soloing, but it it does require a bit of work with the EQ on your amp to balance right with a more mellow neck pickup. I have a JB trembucker matched with a 59'er in the neck in one of my Strats and it took me a bit of work to find the right balance (via pickup height) to make them work well together.

2. That being said, if you get a JB with four conductor wiring and you tap it correctly, the options you get are really nice. The pickup is strong enough that as a single coil or tapped and mixed with other pickups, it adds a nice top-end to the mix.

Not trying to dissuade or influence your decision here, but just wanted to pass along a bit of experience.

 

[Sovereign_13]

Lots of good info here.  Thanks, guys.

I had Triple Shot rings (the Duncan selector rings you all are talking about).  The switches themselves were fine, but I agree, the mounting ring was incredibly flimsy plastic.  The adhesive pad to stick the PCB to the back of the pickup also seemed an... inelegant solution.  I feel as though anything sub-mini is going to feel "cheap" simply because it's very lightweight, but I used and abused mine for probably a year or more without any problems.  My main problem was switch paralysis - not knowing what mode I was in at any given point.  Humbucker was easy enough to tell, but distinguishing one rail from the other, and either from both in parallel, wasn't easy to do just by ear.

That Ultra Switch is crazy.  I feel as though I'd forget what position was supposed to be where.  The rotary seems more intuitive to me if I could find rotary switches that would fit in place of the 3rd and 4th pots.  Then I could have master tone, master volume, neck "mode", and bridge "mode".  That sounds promising whether I go with a P-Rail or conventional 4-conductor HB in the bridge.