Dyed ebony as an option, please.

[AprioriMark]

I understand that it's long been Warmoth's policy to not dye their ebony black.  I appreciate that having the option of figured ebony has long been available, and that a customer can order "jet black" ebony.  I understand why the decision had been made to not dye ebony (even though builders like Gibson and Carvin have been doing it for years... whether or not customers requested it).  After having viewed Bob Taylor's recent thoughtful commentary in youtube, it occurs to me that Warmoth has an opportunity to be a better servant of creation as well as an even better company for its loyal customers.

Why not offer dyed ebony as an option?  Yes, a customer could dye it themselves, though my understanding is that it's best done before frets are installed.  And really, Warmoth's finish shop is top-notch.  Yes, it would be a shift in the labor process, and that's problematic on its face.  The benefit is that Warmoth could be a part of helping the guitar-building world move into the way of thinking where we have to actively care for the world in its entirety, which involves changing hearts and minds of everyone in our circle of influence. 

As for me, I would absolutely choose dyed ebony now, rather than jet black, even if it were the same price as the naturally jet black option... or a few dollars more.  As a friend pointed out to me yesterday, we dye beautiful wood all the time for our guitar bodies; what's the difference in doing the same to a fretboard?

So, tl;dr version:

1) Ebony harvesting procedures have changed, and we need to find ways to best make use of the wood that's harvested.
2) Dyed ebony is visually the same as naturally jet black ebony.
3) Yes, the customer could do it themselves, but it's best done before fretting, and...
4) Warmoth's finish shop is second to none.  I want to know that the dye job was done by the best.
5) Warmoth could demonstrate an active commitment to the care ofthe world around us.  Not everything is about a bottom line, and forgive my religious leaning here, but we are called in Genesis to care for creation.  This is a great way to help normalize our use of the gifts we're given.

-Mark

 

[line6man]

I completely agree.
Dyed Ebony should be an option.

 

[Cagey]

But, then there'll always be a question in your mind about what you're getting. Is it real, or is it Memorex? Diamond, or Cubic Zirconium?

Regardless of Mr. Taylor's alleged altruism or everyone else's good intentions, there's a substantially smaller supply of black Ebony so the rules of supply and demand are going to dictate that the all-black variety command a premium price.

 

[AprioriMark]

And. as I stated, not everything is about the bottom line.  Charge a reasonable amount for the third ebony option of "dyed."  It doesn't have to people who prefer undyed, as they'll still have the option to buy jet black at whatever premium becomes standard.

-Mark

 

[GearBoxTy]

I wholeheartedly agree with Mark.  I think they could offer graduated pricing for Ebony with dyed as an option.  It seems to be a good compromise between wanting exotic wood and conservation.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I can't say enough about Bob Taylor's demeanor and commitment to preserving, not wasting, but he would have us believe everyone else will pay the same for both grades because he does.  If those are indeed his wishes for everyone else, grade B costs as much as Jet Black, so why not get Jet Black?  That choice doesn't cause the extinction of Ebony, because the same amount of trees are still harvested.  Paying more for non-Jet Black to look Jet Black makes even less sense.  Dying a fretboard to a mimic a higher grade is not the same as dying a guitar top.  It would be more akin to painting Birdseyes on plain Maple, or dying WK to look like BK.

 

[AprioriMark]

I disagree, since the "grade" of ebony is subjective, as the coloration has no impact on the wood's sonic properties.  I am willing to pay a premium for dyed ebony, because if I want the look of jet black ebony, it's a much more responsible option. 

You'll note that I'm not asking Warmoth to stop selling Jet Black ebony, and I'm not telling people (as Warmoth salespeople told me today) that they should "just accept figured ebony."  I'm asking for an option (read: in addition to the existing options) that would be BEST done by the exceptional shop on 112th in Puyallup. 

-Mark

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I think dye would be a good option. As has been said, the only difference between black and streaky ebony is an aesthetic one as the tonal and physical properties are the same. So yeah, it's just a finishing option. It looks nice when it's black, so let's have it black as an option.

I'm sure there are some people who enjoy knowing they've got "high grade" wood, and they might even want to discourage dyeing as a way to make sure their high grade ebony is still identifiable as such, but none of that is my problem. If you can have ebony that works fine, is responsibly sourced, and looks good, then it seems like a no-brainer.

What's the downside of it?

 

[ezas]

What's the downside on any option, to the consumer?

For W, it's a matter of business model, logistics, economics and market forces.

I want a rear-routed 7/8ths body option.  I want the option of a 59 roundback on a 24" neck . . . I want a Jaguar/Mustang body that isn't routed for a trem. I'd like to see a top-route option on a musiclander and/or a 720 mod option. Those are a few just off the top of my head.

What's the downside of any of those beyond what I listed in my 2nd sentence?

I see dyed ebony in the same category as neck inserts. Something perhaps best left to the builder. As was already pointed out a streaky neck functions just like a darker piece of ebony (normal variations aside), and the same can be said for neck inserts. Four wood screws hold the neck on just fine. Perhaps neck inserts are value add for money or function as the builder sees fit. Perhaps the same can be said of dyed ebony.

Note: I used neck inserts on the two guitars I built but I wouldn't cry if someone told me I couldn't use them on my next build.

I agree with Super Turbo, while perhaps not on a par of painting on birdseye, its still a really good point. It's a form of 'cosmetics' that is not akin to finishing a body. Almost all bodies get a finish of some form, from W or from us as builders. While no fingerboards from W, get a cosmetic finish and only maple fingerboards gets a clear finish.

Many builders tint their Mahogany with only the goal of making it look more like some ideal of how consumers expect Mahogany should look. Would dying ebony be crossing that same line for better or worse?

 

[AutoBat]

Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Well, hang on a minute, this is a suggestion box. I'm suggesting it from the point of view of a customer. I'm not a shareholder in W or anything and if they decide it's not a viable business option that's up to them.

However, you then go on to talk about "crossing a line", which is hinting at the downside I'm more interested in. Why, all business concerns aside, is there anything wrong with dyeing a piece of wood black for purely aesthetic purposes?

I think some guitars would look good with a jet black fingerboard. Personally I wouldn't care if it was dyed maple or Pau Ferro, so long as it was pure black and hard and bright.

 

[greywolf]

Guitar makers have been dyeing ebony for a long time ( Martin / Gibson) personally I like it natural .  I do think that true black ebony should command a premium .
Bob had several good points , and I applaud his efforts for a sustainable supply .

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

It commands a premium, not for the color, but because it is rarer.  According to Taylor, it makes up 10%.  If 90% were Jet Black and 10% had streaks, the streakier would command a premium price.  But at the root, dyeing shouldn't give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling because it's still endangered and being cut down at the same rate, faster than being replinished.  If you want to do good, buy fewer guitars or dye poplar.  It grows fast and isn't endangered.

 

[AprioriMark]

Ebony is a great wood for fingerboards.  If there were another that were as good, we wouldn't be having this conversation  It's also great for fretboards, and takes frets better than any other type of wood.

Also, this isn't about "fuzzy feelings."  It comes down to the difference between commerce and community.  This suggestion is akin to hunters being the best environmentalists.  Give us the option to choose a reasonably useful option to satisfy our need for dark colored ebony, so that we can be less wasteful and more reasonable.  As far as it being replenished, Taylor didn't address that in his video, but my understanding is that it's a concern that's being addressed.  Maybe that is something that we all should be concerned with as well, but that doesn't change the fact that the piece of this that we can control is asking Warmoth to give us an option for making better use of the streaky ebony that was once left to rot in the forests. 

I'm ok with whatever pricepoint they decide is appropriate, because I know that I will be one of the people ordering it dyed rather than jet black naturally if given the choice.  Cosmetics are an issue for me, not cork sniffing.  Ebony is my favorite fretboard wood, and the only fingerboard wood I'll ever consider.

-Mark

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I can see a scenario where Ebony is extinct, after our lifetimes hopefully, and there are Taylor's warehouses of streaky ebony with the 150 year old documentation.

 

[GearBoxTy]

How can you tell if your Ebony has been dyed or is Jet Black unless you've ordered that Ebony yourself?  I have two guitars with Ebony fretboards: 1987 Hamer Chaparral Custom and 1983 Carvin DC200 Koa.

 

[Cagey]

I can see a scenario where Ebony is extinct, after our lifetimes hopefully, and there are Taylor's warehouses of streaky ebony with the 150 year old documentation.

Perzactly. Mr. Taylor is acting all altruistic, responsible, good steward, blah, blah, blah but that's all just spin designed to appeal to the bleeders. The fact of the matter is he's got control of the majority of the Ebony now, and in the not too distant future maybe all of it, and doesn't want to see what little there is of it left be wasted. Then what? He (or his heirs) will be the DeBeers of Ebony, able to name its price. Call me a cynic, but I guarantee you it's a business decision.

 

[mayfly]

I can see a scenario where Ebony is extinct, after our lifetimes hopefully, and there are Taylor's warehouses of streaky ebony with the 150 year old documentation.

Perzactly. Mr. Taylor is acting all altruistic, responsible, good steward, blah, blah, blah but that's all just spin designed to appeal to the bleeders. The fact of the matter is he's got control of the majority of the Ebony now, and in the not too distant future maybe all of it, and doesn't want to see what little there is of it left be wasted. Then what? He (or his heirs) will be the DeBeers of Ebony, able to name its price. Call me a cynic, but I guarantee you it's a business decision.

Oh yea baby!  DeTaylor! 

I wish I were him.  I wonder if ebony will grow in Canada?  Perhaps this is where GMO can help us out a bit here.  Just an injection in to a sugar maple tree.  or something.

 

[Wyliee]

I'm personally on the fence with this one.  The music instrument industry uses only a small portion of the available exotic woods.  Look to the high end furniture and flooring industries for the major sources of consumption.  We're a drop in the bucket honestly.

As far as dying or not dying, I can see the company perspective in leaving it as-is.  If it was added as an option, I'm not sure how I'd price it out or alter the manufacturing process.  Personally, if that's what it takes to sell more necks and the customer is aware of the dye job and happy, then I'd do it.  That's a simple business decision and I wouldn't expect it to change the world.

 

[Cagey]

How can you tell if your Ebony has been dyed or is Jet Black unless you've ordered that Ebony yourself?  I have two guitars with Ebony fretboards: 1987 Hamer Chaparral Custom and 1983 Carvin DC200 Koa.

Dyed Ebony has been shown to cause psychomotor retardation and dyskenesia in laboratory animals, such as shredders. Keeps them from hitting the notes they want to when they want to as quickly as they want to. Not being able to hit your notes makes you recklessly adjust your neck. Recklessly adjusting your neck leads to racing to the local guitar whisperer for serious adjustment. Racing leads to car wrecks, which raises your insurance. Rising insurance rates force you to get a second job, which keeps you from playing. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Don't be a dull boy. Use natural Ebony.