DupliColor Paint Finish Questions

[Mr. Neutron]

Hey, All!

Working on my Warmoth Alder Vintage Strat body. I'm going to try a DupliColor primer & Perfect Match lacquer paint in Olympic White (already had started it before I saw Tonar's thread......  :-\ ). I've got it primed, and now have 3 very light coats of the paint on it. Will put 3 more light coats on tomorrow, I'm thinkin'.

I have few little scattered pieces of dust that managed to settle on the paint. No real surprise, since I am painting in my pole barn/shop.

My questions, for now, are these:

1. Like I said above, I thought I'd like to shoot 3 more light coats tomorrow. Can I lightly scuff the guitar tomorrow before I spray again, with some gray (extra fine, I think?) ScotchBrite? I don't mean that I would "sand" with dry or wet paper; just lightly with ScotchBrite. Or do these acrylic lacquer paints need more  time to cure before you do that?

2. Thinking ahead, I plan to let the paint dry for a week, then plan on spraying clearcoat with either Watco or Minwax aerosol clear lacquer. I'm thinking of going with a satin finish, and both companies offer that option. Can I assume that I can lightly scuff the paint after it cures with the ScotchBrite, or does that need to be wet sanded before a satin clearcoat? Does the paint need to cure before I spray  clearcoat on it?

3. Has anyone else used a clear lacquer satin finish on their guitar's body? Does it work out okay on painted bodies, particularly white ones?
In EDIT: Changed my mind. It seems most satin finishes tend to get a little glossy over time from simply playing them. So, I may as well just go with gloss to start with.......

Thanks for your patience, you all! Here's a pic of my "Guitar On A Stick".....

 

[Cagey]

You may want to read this if you want a paint schedule that will return professional results.. Gives you a better feel for when/how much to sand.

Sometimes sanding seems counter-intuitive on fresh finish, but trust me - it's absolutely necessary.

 

[fdesalvo]

You may want to read this if you want a paint schedule that will return professional results.. Gives you a better feel for when/how much to sand.

Sometimes sanding seems counter-intuitive on fresh finish, but trust me - it's absolutely necessary.

.

I knew that finish schedule was legit when they mentioned menzerna. I love their products.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Thanks, Cagey!

I believe that I've read that article before (have you linked it before? I need to bookmark it......  :sign13, and it's a great article. Thanks for linking that here!  :icon_thumright:

Since it's geared more towards laying down a clear finish with a spray gun and a finish that shows grain, and not specifically rattle can paint, I probably kinda disregarded it. My bad. But quickly re-reading it shows there's some very good stuff to know in there.

I've made some mistakes with this body that I think will be easy to live with, or hopefully easy to fix.

Again, I'm spraying in my pole barn. I sprayed the paint when the outside temps were in the 30s, the humidity in the 40-60% range, and very little wind. I do have a heater in the barn, but it's still pretty cool in there. The way I went about it actually worked really well (warming up the paint & guitar inside the warm house, painting in the barn, letting it hang over a heater, then bringing it in to the basement). Then, it got sunny and warmed up to 45 deg. the last 2 days, so I went ahead and shot some coats of clear (Minwax clear gloss lacquer rattle can). The problems with shooting in the warmer weather have been twofold, but nothing new to some folks. It seems as if every bug in the county I live in has come out of hibernation, & is attracted to Oly White Strats.  :sad: And with the warmer weather the wind came up. The barn isn't very "airtight", so a lot of junk blew in from beneath the doors, or from the roof vents above.

I'm not too worried about the dust particles.They're smallish, and should sand/buff out. But yesterday, a mosquito landed on the front of the guitar, in an area where the pick guard won't cover it. I let the clear dry overnight, and this morning. I lightly (I thought) scuffed the area with gray ScotchBrite. I now have 3 small, faint, light grayish "streaks" of either bug parts, or something introduced from the ScotchBrite. These "streaks" are where the flat part of the front turns tangent to the radius of the forearm cut. They look like 3 thin, light pencil marks, around 1/2" long.  :icon_scratch:

It reminds me of 40 yrs. ago, when I was getting into the machinist trade. A former boss helped me get a job at a small shop, and the owner was an INCREDIBLE machinist. He asked what machines I knew how to run, listened patiently as I spewed out my pitiful lack of experiences, laughed, and then said "Son, I actually don't care about a lack of experience, or what machines you've ran or haven't ran. You're gonna make mistakes. The sign of a good machinist isn't always what they can do; it's what kinda jams they can get their ass out of."

And now I find myself wondering how to get out of this "jam" on my Strat body. For now, and without knowing any better, I think I'll let it dry for 5-6 weeks, try wet sanding and buffing, and see how it looks.  I can accept a small amount of flaws, since my instruments tend to get played, and despite my best efforts, get little scratches, scuffs, nicks and dings in them anyways......  :dontknow: Easiest would be to just live with it like this, I feel.

But if it absolutely drives me nuts, how would this best be fixed? Can I paint the DupliColor acrylic lacquer over the Minwax clear gloss nitrocellulose? Or do I sand completely back to the color level of paint, shoot some color over the bug lines or whatever they are (most likely something I introduced, possibly from scuffing too soon?), then clear coat again?

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Oh yeah. As a side note, in an effort to avoid this situation at all, I thought about one of these little green houses for a temporary, reusable, easy-to-set-up-and-tear-down paint booth. The one I'm interested in is sold at a local "medium-box" type of store is a small greenhouse, 6'x8'. I like it better than this one in the link, as the one at the store has easier windows to vent/exhaust, and is $120.

https://cdn.aosom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/fb55f29bfc0770b1c2570763d73f3c17/2/4/249009090592deb951d01d.jpg

 

[Cagey]

If it's bug guts, it's possible some naphtha will clear it up, or a combination of that and some 320-400 git. Actually, I think I'd try that regardless of the blem's source. Can't hurt, and worst case is you're prepped for fresh finish.

White is terrible for showing any blemishes, no matter how small, since almost anything will contrast with it. Makes even tiny stuff appear much larger. I did a bleach white Jazzmaster body a couple years ago that you wouldn't want to look at too closely. Shows the importance of filter-clean makeup air.

That temporary shed is an excellent idea! At that size, you could probably set it up inside the barn.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

If it's bug guts, it's possible some naphtha will clear it up, or a combination of that and some 320-400 git. Actually, I think I'd try that regardless of the blem's source. Can't hurt, and worst case is you're prepped for fresh finish.

White is terrible for showing any blemishes, no matter how small, since almost anything will contrast with it. Makes even tiny stuff appear much larger. I did a bleach white Jazzmaster body a couple years ago that you wouldn't want to look at too closely. Shows the importance of filter-clean makeup air.

Thanks for that!!!  I actually already tried the Naptha, and it did minimize it somewhat. Which makes it fall into that "I may just buff it, live with it, and learn from it" category......

That temporary shed is an excellent idea! At that size, you could probably set it up inside the barn.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. It would fit right in one of the 12'x30' bays of my barn. I need to get a pic of the one at the local store. While the one in the pic would work, I think the one (made by a company called "Collins" who I can't find on the web at all......) at my local BiMart store would be more easily adaptable, and again, is $30 cheaper than the one in the link.

I'm slowly accumulating some spray stuff. A couple of cheap Harbor Freight purple guns, with regulators and filters for them. I have a bunch of other stuff needing paint or a finish (outside stuff; a covered utility trailer, a shed, and etc.), so there's some paint spray practice. My next hurdle is getting a dedicated circuit wired up for just my compressor, and finishing the little details on my air dryer deal. And then a whole new set of jams to get my ass out of begins........  :laughing7:

 

[Cagey]

If you have a large enough capacity tank and a quick-recovery compressor, you my want to look into some HVLP guns. Just as good a finish with a lot less material waste and/or overspray. Very air-hungry guns, though. You rarely need more than 10 psi, but you can use 40-50 cfm pretty easily. Most HVLP rigs don't even use a compressor, per se. They use a turbine blower, kinda like a shop vac running in reverse.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Here''s a pic of the little portable greenhouse/she'd I spoke of above here.They lowered the price down to  $99.99. It's 8' l x 6' w x 7' h. I like the construction of this; the way it fastens together is nice. Plenty of room to do a guitar in, but I actually have a "project" where I need to paint a bunch of 10 ft. long pipes, 1.5" in diameter. Not enough room for those.....

But I found one on Amazon for $30 more that is 10' x 8' that looks like it might work.

I realize I totally derailed this paint thread, but maybe some other folks who need an area to paint can use something like these. I'm lucky one of these can fit inside a bay in my pole barn. In the reviews, one of the common complaints of these is not standing up well to wind storms.

Added in EDIT: The one at the store wasn't actually layin' on it''s side like it shows in the photo. I dunno why importing an image sometimes rotates the file 90 degrees......  ??? :icon_scratch:

 

[Tonar8352]

How do plan on venting that thing?

 

[Cagey]

That's a good question. Exhaust has to have the same capacity as intake, lest you create a negative internal pressure, which in view of its seeming flimsiness could collapse it. Then, intake has to be filtered clean, or the whole thing is pointless. Sounds like a job for "Filter Holding Frame Maker Thingy Man".

 

[Mr. Neutron]

How do plan on venting that thing?

That's an area I'm very much trying to decide what to do. I'm definitely open to suggestions.

One thing I'very wondered about, and I'm sure I must be missing something  about, is why is ventilation almost always negative pressure, or sucking? Is it more efficient than positive pressure? I've considered buying a crapload of furnace filters and pushing filtered air in, so the tent doesn't collapse on itself......

At any rate, I'm lookin' for a suitable fan, be it a squirrel cage type, or a box fan. Are brushless fmotor fans "flame/explosion proof"? Anyone know if heat pump compressor fans would be a safe one to use? I have a relative in the HVAC biz, and he has a good bit of this junk laying around his place.......

Lighting is another consideration I'be been mulling over. Probably.try some form of LEDs, I reckon.....

 

[Cagey]

I don't think it has to be a "negative" pressure, it just often works out that way in the interest of "removing" atmosphere. But, what you have to be conscious of is your "makeup" air. That has be clean, and with negative pressure you may not know all your sources. You may be sucking in dirty air from somewhere, which is NFG. May as well not bother. With postive pressue, you probably don't need to, assuming the makeup is filtered.

Another good thing about positive pressure is you don't have to worry about combustible atmospheres as much, since the air doesn't move past the motor where it could be ignited. The only downside I can think of with positive pressurization is it's less controllable, flow-wise. Just thinking out loud; I'm not an HVAC guy.

 

[stratamania]

I would imagine negative pressure intake is simply easy to control where the flow is needed.

If you had to push air in where would you be pushing it from and how would you control where it was going?

 

[Mr. Neutron]

I would imagine negative pressure intake is simply easy to control where the flow is needed.

If you had to push air in where would you be pushing it from and how would you control where it was going?

Well, my current thoughts are to push air in through one of the flaps/windows you see on the side, possibly with a box fan. Then have it exit diagonally out a flap/window on the opposite side. It's hard to "visualize" I guess, given the photo that got rotated 90 deg.. I had thought, kinda like Cagey did above, that if the motor were on the side of the airflow that's moving away from it (where all the mists and nastiness is), some simple furnace air filters would (hopefully) take care of the clean air supply for the fan. The store I was at had those furnace filters just a few feet away, and some are almost the exact size needed to stick in one of those window/flaps, while others happen to fit a box fan pretty well. I would guess those would take care of the "big chunks 'o' junk" floating around in the air. I'm not certain that a simple diagonal cross flow of air would have enough of a "siphoning effect" to draw some of the paint fumes with it. My respirator takes good care of the dusts, and most of the fumes, but probably not all of them?

God, am I showing my true Okie Redneck Engineering Heritage here? I probably wouldn't have lived as long as I have without duct tape.......  :toothy12:

One of my non-guitar related projects will involve water-based primer and paint, so I'm hoping the setup above would do fine for that. It's when shooting a lacquer or maybe a 2 part poly that I would like to know for sure it's gonna work. May have to buy a Miner's Canary, stand outside and shoot something toxic in there......  :laughing7:

 

[stratamania]

Well if you are going to push air in with a box fan, how is that going to intake its air?

Then you still need to extract it.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

Well, I didn't say it was a perfect plan. It's just a plan, for now, hee hee..... And definitely subject to change......  :icon_scratch:  :confused4: I hope I'm understanding your question correctly.

Maybe this will help kinda explain what my thoughts were. The tent would be set up inside my pole barn/shop, on a concrete floor. I have plenty of room to do this in my 30' x60' pole barn building. It would be sealed as well as possible with duct tape at the floor, windows, doors and etc.. I hope it might allow me to get in and out, let an air hose in, have a cord for lights, and etc.. A box fan, with furnace filters on the "intake" side of it, sits just outside of the little greenhouse tent, directly adjacent to & duct taped to one of those flap/windows. It is set to blow/push air inside the tent, hopefully clean air, from the outside of the tent. It will draw it's air from inside the barn, but again, the air passes through a couple of furnace filters before entering the greenhouse tent.

The air would exit the tent from another of those flap/windows, I suppose with a filter on it, that would be diagonally across from where the air enters. The filter where the air exits would hopefully catch overspray dust, and keep that off junk in my barn. It would be set for an exit near a slightly open barn door. I dunno if that would require ducting or not. I'm no HVAC guy or Environmental Engineer myself. I do still have friends I used to work with who are, however.....

My thinking (normally flawed  :dontknow: ) is that most overspray dust drops downward, due to gravity. The windows/flaps sit about 2 feet off the ground, where settling dust would be caught in the diagonal movement of air through the tent, and then outward. I'm not certain of the fumes, however....... This will require more thinking, and obviously, that's not my strong suit, hee hee......  :icon_scratch: I better go buy some beer....  ccasion14:

Anyway, I do apologize for my horrible verbal descriptions of this, yet hope it kinda clarifies what I'm thinking about doing. It's just an idea I'm wanting to discuss, not cast in concrete yet, and the plans can change as needed. It's definitely an attempt to get by on the cheap, and an effort to keep bugs off my guitar bodies and such......

 

[stratamania]

Beer...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpSr-ZOLYGA[/youtube]

 

[Cagey]

Is there anything beer can't do?​

 

[stratamania]

Anyway, I do apologize for my horrible verbal descriptions of this, yet hope it kinda clarifies what I'm thinking about doing. It's just an idea I'm wanting to discuss, not cast in concrete yet, and the plans can change as needed. It's definitely an attempt to get by on the cheap, and an effort to keep bugs off my guitar bodies and such......

No apology needed or required. Just putting a couple of questions to help the thought process along.

ccasion14: