Doing a headstock decal on bloodwood, using shellac/lacquer

[vikingred]

Ok, so I have the neck burnished beautifully.  Left the headstock face unburnished, obviously.  Decided to apply spray-on shellac as an initial "isolator".  Though, I did wonder would it have worked to thoroughly burnish the headstock face ("sealing the cells together, as it were") and apply the waterslide decal then shoot lacquer.  But anyway, I didn't do that.

Ok, so I have applied two light coats of clear shellac to the headstock face.  Question is, should I sand the shellac with like some 800 or 1000 prior to applying the waterslide decal, or just leave it as is (thoroughly dried of course)?

Another question, once the waterslide decal dries in place for 24 hours, should I hit again with one more light coat of shellac before I start the lacquer coats?  I believe I read where it's good to go over the decal with one light coat of shellac before starting lacquer, but I can't find where I read that.

Any other caveats or suggestions?

(Incidentally, burnishing is like MAGIC, can I tell you?  If you haven't done it, you must.  It's an experience.  Wife says, "Oh, so you have to sand it, huh?"  Me: "I'm not sanding, I'm burnishing."  Her when it's done: "Wow! that's smooth as glass".  Yah.)

 

[Cagey]

I don't know that I'd go so far as 800 or 1000 grit over the shellac base. If you make it too smooth, subsequent finish coats may not adhere well.

As far as coating over the decal, I think I'd do that just to create a barrier against the acetone in the lacquer. Acetone is a fairly aggressive solvent and you don't want to dissolve the ink on you decal.

 

[vikingred]

I don't know that I'd go so far as 800 or 1000 grit over the shellac base. If you make it too smooth, subsequent finish coats may not adhere well.

As far as coating over the decal, I think I'd do that just to create a barrier against the acetone in the lacquer. Acetone is a fairly aggressive solvent and you don't want to dissolve the ink on you decal.

Ok, so like maybe 400 or 600?  Or maybe just don't sand it at all?  It seems reasonably smooth to me.  Whatcha think?

 

[Cagey]

I would do 320, maybe 400 at the outside. Use a hard rubber block, as the object of the exercise is to level the surface. If you use your hands, it'll end up wavy.

 

[vikingred]

I would do 320, maybe 400 at the outside. Use a hard rubber block, as the object of the exercise is to level the surface. If you use your hands, it'll end up wavy.

Used 400 and rubber block.  Worked very well.  Did the decal.  Letting it dry overnight.

Question:  Since the shellac is an "isolator" and a filler of sorts, wouldn't it have been feasible to burnish the face of the headstock instead of shellacing?  If it were burnished like a mirror finish, it would presumably accept the decal quite well.  Then shoot it with shellac once to seal it in, and then start with the lacquer.  No?  Maybe?  Why not?

 

[Cagey]

A burnished finish would accept a decal quite well. But, you still have to apply finish to bury the decal, or it looks tacky and cheap. If the headstock face were burnished, then any subsequent finish may not stay in place. It would want to peel off, due to a lack of anything to grab onto.

Now that you have a barrier on there, you can shoot a few coats of lacquer, then start sanding/re-coating until the edges of the decal vanish. Instead of tacky and cheap, it'll look attractive and professional.

 

[vikingred]

A burnished finish would accept a decal quite well. But, you still have to apply finish to bury the decal, or it looks tacky and cheap. If the headstock face were burnished, then any subsequent finish may not stay in place. It would want to peel off, due to a lack of anything to grab onto.

Now that you have a barrier on there, you can shoot a few coats of lacquer, then start sanding/re-coating until the edges of the decal vanish. Instead of tacky and cheap, it'll look attractive and professional.

Makes sense.  Glad I sanded with the 400, too because it really made it smooth and took the shine of the shellac away.  Thanks Cagey for your quick answers, this is so helpful.  I guess it's obvious this is my first build, but I'm thinking I may do pretty well.  I had practiced on an old Squier Strat I had--sanded off the "Squier" and did the shellac, decal, lacquer, but did it way too fast and it came out ok, I buried the decal but it was too thick and softish.  Taking my time on this one.

Next question.  So, my decal is nicely in place (no bubbles) over the sanded shellac, drying overnight.  I'm going to shoot it with shellac again in the morning (rather lightly) to lock it in.  I gather I SHOULD NOT sand that layer of shellac (the overcoat) for danger of scraping the decal, so just shoot it lightly in the morning, and then tomorrow night I can start with some light coats of lacquer.  Does that sound right?

Thanks again, Cagey, for all your help, and I look forward to sending it to you for the level, dress, crown, polish, and the FR setup.

 

[Cagey]

I buried the decal but it was too thick and softish.  Taking my time on this one.

You may want to wait a day or two before you start trying to finish over the shellac. Lacquer is a bit different. It won't be hard enough to buff out, but it's usually hard enough that you can block sand it within an hour or so. So, if you have a weekend free, you should be able to get enough coats on to bury the decal. If it was me, I'd be putting on several coats before I tried to start levelling it, lest you damage the decal. As you know, the things are super-thin and fragile. You only want to sand the lacquer, not anything else. After that, then shoot, sand, shoot, sand until the entire face is level. Wait a couple/few weeks, then do the finish sanding with the progressively higher grits until it's ready to buff and polish.

 

[vikingred]

I buried the decal but it was too thick and softish.  Taking my time on this one.

You may want to wait a day or two before you start trying to finish over the shellac. Lacquer is a bit different. It won't be hard enough to buff out, but it's usually hard enough that you can block sand it within an hour or so. So, if you have a weekend free, you should be able to get enough coats on to bury the decal. If it was me, I'd be putting on several coats before I tried to start levelling it, lest you damage the decal. As you know, the things are super-thin and fragile. You only want to sand the lacquer, not anything else. After that, then shoot, sand, shoot, sand until the entire face is level. Wait a couple/few weeks, then do the finish sanding with the progressively higher grits until it's ready to buff and polish.

Ok, sounds good, but the shellac layer (light) that goes on directly over the decal---should it be sanded at all once it's dried, or no?  Seems like if it's just a thin layer there would be a high risk of damaging the decal if you sanded it.  Like should I just hit it with the shellac (lightly) in the morning, let it dry till Saturday, and then put on my first coat of lacquer?

 

[stratamania]

Personally I wouldn't bother with shellac over the decal. But as long as it doesn't look too rough don't sand it. You need to build up the lacquer over the decal.

Subsequent layers of lacquer react with each other. Once the whole thing is thick enough then you can level sand it. And re coat if you feel you need to and repeat till finished.

 

[vikingred]

Personally I wouldn't bother with shellac over the decal. But as long as it doesn't look too rough don't sand it. You need to build up the lacquer over the decal.

Subsequent layers of lacquer react with each other. Once the whole thing is thick enough then you can level sand it. And re coat if you feel you need to and repeat till finished.

Well, I've read that lacquer has acetone in it that reacts with the decal and can sorta melt the lettering, so I saw where one light coat of shellac over the decal is recommended.  Dunno.  I'm literally a clueless newbie feeling my way through this thing, but can't wait to get these meatsticks in play.  Yes, I said meatstick.  Thats what we used to call them back in the day.  "bring that POS meatstick with you, the volume pot is going bad on my les paul".  Heh.

 

[Cagey]

Ok, sounds good, but the shellac layer (light) that goes on directly over the decal---should it be sanded at all once it's dried, or no?  Seems like if it's just a thin layer there would be a high risk of damaging the decal if you sanded it.  Like should I just hit it with the shellac (lightly) in the morning, let it dry till Saturday, and then put on my first coat of lacquer?

The first shellac layer on the decal is just to keep the acetone in the lacquer from melting the ink on the face of the decal. Thin is fine, but it won't be anywhere near thick enough to sand on. You'll need several layers of lacquer after that before you start sanding or you'll almost certainly wreck the decal. Just be patient. Unless you live in the arctic, at this time of year you should be able to get 6 or 8 coats of lacquer on over the course of a day. After two days, you'll have enough lacquer on there that you don't have to worry about it. Let it harden, finish sand it, buff and polish it, and sit back and let the praise soak in.

 

[vikingred]

Ok, sounds good, but the shellac layer (light) that goes on directly over the decal---should it be sanded at all once it's dried, or no?  Seems like if it's just a thin layer there would be a high risk of damaging the decal if you sanded it.  Like should I just hit it with the shellac (lightly) in the morning, let it dry till Saturday, and then put on my first coat of lacquer?

The first shellac layer on the decal is just to keep the acetone in the lacquer from melting the ink on the face of the decal. Thin is fine, but it won't be anywhere near thick enough to sand on. You'll need several layers of lacquer after that before you start sanding or you'll almost certainly wreck the decal. Just be patient. Unless you live in the arctic, at this time of year you should be able to get 6 or 8 coats of lacquer on over the course of a day. After two days, you'll have enough lacquer on there that you don't have to worry about it. Let it harden, finish sand it, buff and polish it, and sit back and let the praise soak in.

Gotcha.  Makes sense.  Tnx.

 

[stratamania]

The shellac certainly isn't going to hurt it. Even without it I do a couple of light mist coats over a decal and let dry for 24 hours prior to wet coats.

If in doubt use the shellac as it acts as a barrier between most things finish wise.

 

[ocguy106]

I used Deft lacquer spray directly on the decal with no problems. Mine was a waterslide decal I bought from a guy on the internet. can't say it works on all of them I just didn't know any better and got lucky that the material I had wasn't effected.

 

[vikingred]

Yeah I went ahead and did 2 coats of shellac first, sanded with 400 using a rubber block.  Did the waterslide decal.  Shot it again with shellac, let it good and dry, then started the deft lacquer coats.  Been doing the "warm the can up in a sink of warm water" thing before I shoot each coat.  I'm on coat 4 I think.  Should have 8 or 9 by the end of the weekend.  Gonna let it sit for week then start the sand/shoot thing to make the decal disappear.  So far so good.  The "Fender Stratocaster" decal looks a little odd on a bloodwood headstock, BUT very cool nonetheless.  Working on electronics today (EMGs).