Direct Mounted pickups
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Disco Scottie
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I'm tuning in for this one. That's a question on my long list of questions.
TonyFlyingSquirrel
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Tonally, it's subjective.
Some say the benefit is because the pickups are direct mounted, more resonance is the result.
My two main guitars have direct mounted pickups, and it's a hard arguement to say the results are obvious in either direction.
I like it more for comfort as my pinky of my picking hand rests in the cavity atop the humbucker height adjustement screw.
Some say the benefit is because the pickups are direct mounted, more resonance is the result.
My two main guitars have direct mounted pickups, and it's a hard arguement to say the results are obvious in either direction.
I like it more for comfort as my pinky of my picking hand rests in the cavity atop the humbucker height adjustement screw.
As pickups don't actually vibrate or resonate, I can't really see how they could effect tone in that way. Perhaps it makes it easier, as you point out Tony, to play in a certain way. It's curious this one- maybe it's just for people who hate those pickup springs! It would also seem to me that wood mounting would also make the warmoth 720 mod more useful, as in sitting everything a litte lower-fretboard, pickups, bridge. Again, not sure what effect it has, but maybe aesthetic?
Strat Avenger
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There is NO difference in tone between a direct-mounted pickup and a ring-mounted pickup.
I direct-mounted the pickups on my Warmoth because I like the way it looks, AND because I have a tendency to crack or break the corners on plastic pickup rings with my picking technique (maybe it's bad technique).
I don't really like the way the pickup wobbles back & forth on the two mounting screws. The ring-mounted pickups don't do it as much.
I direct-mounted the pickups on my Warmoth because I like the way it looks, AND because I have a tendency to crack or break the corners on plastic pickup rings with my picking technique (maybe it's bad technique).
I don't really like the way the pickup wobbles back & forth on the two mounting screws. The ring-mounted pickups don't do it as much.
Street Avenger: anyone here that knows me , knows I'm not a big believer in all the " what's best for tone" ie nut material, neckwood, body wood, and all the other stuff.
But I am a firm believer that direct mounted pups do sound better, the bezel and springs that hold pickups act as little shock absorbers, on a micro scale the strings and pickups are bucking each other, the magnets are pushing against the strings, the strings are pushing against the magnets, this acts to dampen the overall .....inductive reactance for a lack of a better term. 1/3 rd of my guitars have direct mounted pups, and they have a certain chime or twang, whatever, that the others don't have, the spring mounted pups have a softer warmer sound.
Sorry for this, it's like sex on a waterbed vs on a hardwood floor, deer lord I appologize
But I am a firm believer that direct mounted pups do sound better, the bezel and springs that hold pickups act as little shock absorbers, on a micro scale the strings and pickups are bucking each other, the magnets are pushing against the strings, the strings are pushing against the magnets, this acts to dampen the overall .....inductive reactance for a lack of a better term. 1/3 rd of my guitars have direct mounted pups, and they have a certain chime or twang, whatever, that the others don't have, the spring mounted pups have a softer warmer sound.
Sorry for this, it's like sex on a waterbed vs on a hardwood floor, deer lord I appologize
Strat Avenger
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Cagey said:
Yeah, no kidding. Anyone who knows how a pickup works, knows that it is not an acoustic device, but an electro-magnetic device. It doesn't care if it's screwed to wood, or to plastic, or to oatmeal. It;s gonna perform the same way, all else being equal.
I DO like the way direct-mount looks though.
I require my pickups to be adjustable, so I have springs between the pickup legs and the body's pickup cavity. If you were to screw it all the way down, there would be no "wobble" as I previously mentioned, but the pickup would also be much too far from the strings. If I wanted it non-adjustable, I could always put a rosewood shim under there, and screw it solid with no springs.
you don't necessarily have to use springs - you can just put a thick enough piece of foam underneath the pickup - I actually prefer this to using springs, but the foam gives you a level surface making the face of the pickup parallel to the body. i find pickups tend to often lean a little bit to one side, so with a humbucker one coil is closer to the strings than the other. Not that this REALLY matters, but with some pickups where the coils are voiced differently, it can a noticeable affect. thus the foam is my preference
Death by Uberschall
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Biggest benefit is the pickups are less prone to feedback and squeal from being loosely mounted. Just as some people, including myself have put foam under the ring mounted pups to stop feedback, solid mounting does the same thing.
Strat Avenger
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I am fully aware of the foam trick, but I think of foam as an insulator (sound deadener). I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the pickup, I just don't like any extra damping material which might affect the way the body resonates. I'm not saying it makes a big difference, and I admit that it may be more psychological than anything.
'Ever notice how on the cheaper guitars with a floating Floyd; there is a foam material under the fine tuner area? The more high-end guitars, as well as the customs don't have that. It looks better with it, but it is an obvious damping material.
'Ever notice how on the cheaper guitars with a floating Floyd; there is a foam material under the fine tuner area? The more high-end guitars, as well as the customs don't have that. It looks better with it, but it is an obvious damping material.
Jusatele
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Pickups do not add to sound by vibrating, infact it could take away from the sound,
A pickup creates a electrical field and that field picks up the disturbances to that field created by the Vibrations of the strings. In other words the vibration of the string is cutting thru the magnetic field and creating energy in the coil, the more solid the pickup, the more the vibrations can cut through field
A pickup creates a electrical field and that field picks up the disturbances to that field created by the Vibrations of the strings. In other words the vibration of the string is cutting thru the magnetic field and creating energy in the coil, the more solid the pickup, the more the vibrations can cut through field
OMG you guys don't know what your talking about, I am here to tell you that a string vibrating in front of a magnetic field has some resistance induced due to the magnetic field, thats why they don't use neodynium magnets, they are too strong and dampen the string vibration too much.
Cagey, before you start claiming " gimmie a break" why don't you spend 5 years in electrical school like I did, and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. go google search "inductive reactance" I know your gut instinct tells you one thing, but too bad, science over rules you. those strings that vibrate through the lines of magnetic flux, don't do that for free, they have to work at it, and that work is equally divided between force against the string as it is force against the magnets.
I don't mind you having an opinion, thats good, just try and back yourself up , try and explain in simple terms why I'm wrong. Still Friends?
Cagey, before you start claiming " gimmie a break" why don't you spend 5 years in electrical school like I did, and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. go google search "inductive reactance" I know your gut instinct tells you one thing, but too bad, science over rules you. those strings that vibrate through the lines of magnetic flux, don't do that for free, they have to work at it, and that work is equally divided between force against the string as it is force against the magnets.
I don't mind you having an opinion, thats good, just try and back yourself up , try and explain in simple terms why I'm wrong. Still Friends?
drewfx
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This is my understanding:
Of course the strings don't vibrate "for free" in the PU's magnetic field. Otherwise they couldn't induce any current - a portion of the string's vibrational energy is converted to electrical signal output from the PU.
Someone with a degree can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think it matters if the string is moving or the PU is moving; the important part is that the string is moving relative to the PU's magnetic field. That's what generates the electrical signal.
So the key question here is, "how do different PU mounting methods change the relationship between the vibrating string and the PU's magnetic field?".
My intuition, without any actual scientific testing, is "probably not much difference, since it seems to me the string is generally moving a whole lot more than the body is". But my intuition has been proven wrong more than a few times, so...
Of course the strings don't vibrate "for free" in the PU's magnetic field. Otherwise they couldn't induce any current - a portion of the string's vibrational energy is converted to electrical signal output from the PU.
Someone with a degree can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think it matters if the string is moving or the PU is moving; the important part is that the string is moving relative to the PU's magnetic field. That's what generates the electrical signal.
So the key question here is, "how do different PU mounting methods change the relationship between the vibrating string and the PU's magnetic field?".
My intuition, without any actual scientific testing, is "probably not much difference, since it seems to me the string is generally moving a whole lot more than the body is". But my intuition has been proven wrong more than a few times, so...
Jusatele
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So Alfang. If I do not know what I am talking about, then how could a pickup vibrating in the same increase the the signal in the coil, would not a magnetic field that is still be effected more than a one vibrating with the string
and yes the reason we use the magnets we do is to balance the amount of field to the pull of the mags on the strings, that is why we have adjustable poles
Do we need to get into the Permeability of the strings and the distance of the pole from the string, or the polarity, how about the way the magnet is laid out such as flat in a P90 or in the middle of the coil as in a Fender single coil, then there is the unique layout of the early Gibson CCs where they ran the direction of the strings.
A pickup vibrating around is Garbage in Garbage out.
Now the way the vibration of the spring is effected to create the signal in the field is the concern (we are saying if the pickup is properly installed and is of good design.)
the density of the wood, the joint in the neck, the quality of the hardware all will effect the string vibration.
Not wanting to get into the harmonics of the string and where the node/antinode lines up and the placement of pickups. I simple stated that a solid mounted Pickup would get a better reaction from the string than one that was vibrating in sinc with the string
and yes the reason we use the magnets we do is to balance the amount of field to the pull of the mags on the strings, that is why we have adjustable poles
Do we need to get into the Permeability of the strings and the distance of the pole from the string, or the polarity, how about the way the magnet is laid out such as flat in a P90 or in the middle of the coil as in a Fender single coil, then there is the unique layout of the early Gibson CCs where they ran the direction of the strings.
A pickup vibrating around is Garbage in Garbage out.
Now the way the vibration of the spring is effected to create the signal in the field is the concern (we are saying if the pickup is properly installed and is of good design.)
the density of the wood, the joint in the neck, the quality of the hardware all will effect the string vibration.
Not wanting to get into the harmonics of the string and where the node/antinode lines up and the placement of pickups. I simple stated that a solid mounted Pickup would get a better reaction from the string than one that was vibrating in sinc with the string
