Deft Clear Wood Acrylic Finish - Satin

[DocNrock]

Has anyone tried this on a raw neck, like maple?  Did it work well.  It claims to not yellow over time.  I'm mainly interested in using it over waterslide decals I want to make for my headstocks, but if it works well, I might try it on a neck or two?

Thoughts?

 

[pabloman]

I've used the Deft lacquer from a rattle can and it seems to take forever to cure. I'm talkin about waiting 6 months (not on purpose) to assemble and still having the hardware sinking in. Other than that's it's great. Laid down good. Polished up great. I've never used the acrylic so I guess my story is irrelevant. Oh well.  :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

Acrylic!

Kill me! I'm here! You know you want to!​

Acrylics are for tree huggers.

Acrylics cause cancer in laboratory animals in ingested quantities as low as 14 gallons/day.

If you use acrylics, the terrorists win. Think of the children!

But, most importantly, they don't dry/cure hard enough for the kind of duty a guitar neck will see. That is, if they ever dry/cure. They have a plastic feel that will impart that "sticky" sensation some complain about even with well-cured gloss nitrocellulose lacquer or polyurethane.

But, do what you want. I won't stop you. Just don't come crying to me when you hate your own creation.

 

[DocNrock]

Acrylic!

Kill me! I'm here! You know you want to!​

Acrylics are for tree huggers.

Acrylics cause cancer in laboratory animals in ingested quantities as low as 14 gallons/day.

If you use acrylics, the terrorists win. Think of the children!

But, most importantly, they don't dry/cure hard enough for the kind of duty a guitar neck will see. That is, if they ever dry/cure. They have a plastic feel that will impart that "sticky" sensation some complain about even with well-cured gloss nitrocellulose lacquer or polyurethane.

But, do what you want. I won't stop you. Just don't come crying to me when you hate your own creation.

Just asking because I honestly have no clue.  So polyurethane is better?

 

[Cagey]

It depends on what you're trying to do, and what kind of resources you have. Polyurethane is the best finish for guitar necks/bodies, bar none. It's impervious to just about anything short of methylene chloride, Rottweilers or hateful spouses, it's super-durable, it's able to be brought to a fine gloss, etc. Problem with it is, it can be difficult to deal with if you want to spray it due to toxicity issues. There are brush/wipe on versions of it, but they generally don't produce the kinds of fine finish you expect on a guitar. It's difficult to work with once it's cured, so a less-than-perfect application can make you cry. It's difficult to repair, so you've gotta be a talented applicator and willing to tolerate signs of abuse later on as they occur.

On the other hand, lacquer will produce as fine a finish, but it's a lot more work to get there and not quite as durable. On the plus side, you can work it forever. Makes it a favorite for us DIY folks, all talk about "tone" notwithstanding. You screw up, you can fix it, and you don't need a pro paint shop to deal with the whole thing. Allows you to try all sorts of schemes, such as burying decals.

Everything else is just also-rans that aren't worthy of consideration on a fine instrument.

 

[DocNrock]

It depends on what you're trying to do, and what kind of resources you have. Polyurethane is the best finish for guitar necks/bodies, bar none. It's impervious to just about anything short of methylene chloride, Rottweilers or hateful spouses, it's super-durable, it's able to be brought to a fine gloss, etc. Problem with it is, it can be difficult to deal with if you want to spray it due to toxicity issues. There are brush/wipe on versions of it, but they generally don't produce the kinds of fine finish you expect on a guitar. It's difficult to work with once it's cured, so a less-than-perfect application can make you cry. It's difficult to repair, so you've gotta be a talented applicator and willing to tolerate signs of abuse later on as they occur.

On the other hand, lacquer will produce as fine a finish, but it's a lot more work to get there and not quite as durable. On the plus side, you can work it forever. Makes it a favorite for us DIY folks, all talk about "tone" notwithstanding. You screw up, you can fix it, and you don't need a pro paint shop to deal with the whole thing. Allows you to try all sorts of schemes, such as burying decals.

Everything else is just also-rans that aren't worthy of consideration on a fine instrument.

So far small areas to cover, like headstocks, rattle cans of clear polyurethane are OK?  Or should I be looking at lacquer?

 

[Cagey]

Around the house, I'd be looking at lacquer, if for no other reason than it's easy to work with and can produce great results with the proper attention. You can sand it, re-shoot it, buff it, etc. and get a really fine finish. Poly is a little tougher to get the same results from - you can always tell it wasn't professionally applied. The stuff the big builders use is catalyzed and flows out nicely, which is why Warmoth's stuff looks so good. One pass and you're done. Polish it up a bit, and ship it. But, it's toxic as hell so you can't really shoot it around the house. You need a proper spray booth, ventilation, a clean atmosphere for it to set up in and so forth. Lacquer you can shoot anywhere, because you're ultimately going to refine the finish later with a lotta elbow grease.

There are catalyzed two-part paints you can buy in a rattle can, such as USC SprayMax 2K that look real promising, but I haven't used them so I can't say how well they work. But, if they work anything like the catalyzed paints I've used in the past, they're magical. They don't dry, they cure, and end up looking like wet glass.

 

[bagman67]

The research I've done on the SprayMax2k product suggests that yes, it will do the trick, but you still need a respirator and goggles and should probably wear a full coverall suit as well.  It's the same ultra-toxic stuff the pros use in production shops in an aerosol.  Also, you will still want to wet-sand and buff for best results.

 

[DocNrock]

OK, so they didn't have any SprayMax2k at Home Depot, but they had "fast drying" polyurethane in rattle cans.  I picked up a couple to try out. If that doesn't work, I'll order the SprayMax2k product from Amazon. 

 

[DocNrock]

OK, so they didn't have any SprayMax2k at Home Depot, but they had "fast drying" polyurethane in rattle cans.  I picked up a couple to try out. If that doesn't work, I'll order the SprayMax2k product from Amazon.

So, the "fast drying" polyurethane had an interesting side effect.  It went on smoothly enough.  And I definitely chose the clear satin.  But there is no question that it imparted a slight amber tint to the wood.  This is on a canary wood headstock, by the way.  Completely sanded back prior to spraying to get rid of all oils, etc.

FWIW, I used the Varathane polyurethane ultra-fast dry time satin interior.  I also picked up the same thing made by Minwax, but haven't tried it yet. 

 

[Cagey]

So, the "fast drying" polyurethane had an interesting side effect.  It went on smoothly enough.  And I definitely chose the clear satin.  But there is no question that it imparted a slight amber tint to the wood.

Many woods respond that way to clears. Changes the way the light refracts or something. For instance, here's a piece of Mahogany with a swipe of naphtha across it...

Naphtha is water-clear, but it seems to darken the wood. Once it flashes off, it's gone and you'd never know it was there. But, shoot some clear on there, and the effect stays.

Fortunate side effect in this case is that's a raw Canary neck, and it ended up matching very nicely.

 

[Jesse]

SprayMax 2K is legit.  I know a few people who have gotten really excellent results with it.  But it isn't foolproof and getting the truly mirror shine takes some work and potentially a bunch of tools you may not want to invest in.  The guy I know who got really good results struggled with it for a while, unable to get a completely swirl-free finish.  Here is the advice he was given by a professional painter:

I only go through 3 steps before buffing...
P1000
P1500
Both dry on a random orbital
P3000 wet on the same orbital.

Then buff with a wool pad and high speed
Then polish with a gray foam pad at a lower speed.

 

[gjacob]

OK, so they didn't have any SprayMax2k at Home Depot

You can get it at auto part stores, especially if they sell more than just touch-up paint.  You can also order online.  It should cost you between $18-23/can.  This stuff is awesome as it is tough as nails, cures fast and can be buffed in 24 hours.  Just make sure you start with a flat surface as it goes on thin (as any good Guitar finish should)