Dating Warmoth parts from design changes.

[Unwound G]

A few of my Warmoth builds have not been dated as I found out recently especially those finished by Warmoth in-house which prevented me from putting in serial numbers under the transparent coating.

Here is my querie on time-line if anyone can offer :

1.  Strat-style body with a narrower waist than the current Fender spec'd body.

2.  Strat-style headstock with more rounded corner and lesser curve just below the area where the logo was usually pasted.

Appreciate if any old-timer or even Ken can enlighten me.  Many thanks. 

 

[aarontunes]

Pictures would help, including pictures of the turtle stamp. Even then, you're not going to get an exact year. It will be more like "that's is a really old one...probably from the 80's sometime."

 

[Unwound G]

Double A, thanks for responding.  Here are two pictures as you suggested.  I just want to have an idea of the period of each individual design when in production.  That way, I can more or less date my guitar of its age.

 

[aarontunes]

If Ken reads this he might have some information, but honestly at first glance those don't even look like Warmoth parts to me. If they are, they are going to be quite old I think, from a time when there were some very different construction methods going on. For example, on current production Warmoth necks the squared ends of the fretboard would indicate it was a Gibson®-scale conversion neck, but such a neck would never have a truss-rod plug.


Have you actually taken them apart and seen a Warmoth brand on either the heel or neck pocket? The body looks "off" to me too, so either they are not Warmoth parts, or they are quite old.

 

[Unwound G]

Trust me, they are as Warmoth as they come.  I assembled them.  There was a period in Warmoth's history where customers are supposed to round off the fretboard ends if they choose so but since it was Warmoth finished, it stayed as they came from production. It's a 25-1/2" scale neck and one of the earliest Vintage/Modern construction with a headstock plug.  I guess no one can identify except perhaps Ken.

 

[aarontunes]

Trust me, they are as Warmoth as they come.  I assembled them.  There was a period in Warmoth's history where customers are supposed to round off the fretboard ends if they choose so but since it was Warmoth finished, it stayed as they came from production. It's a 25-1/2" scale neck and one of the earliest Vintage/Modern construction with a headstock plug.  I guess no one can identify except perhaps Ken.

Interesting....I did not know rounding off your own fretboard was ever a thing. Sounds like you know more about Warmoth history than me! When did you assemble the parts? That might be your best indication of how old they are, unless Ken sees this and chimes in.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Trust me, they are as Warmoth as they come.  I assembled them.  There was a period in Warmoth's history where customers are supposed to round off the fretboard ends if they choose so but since it was Warmoth finished, it stayed as they came from production. It's a 25-1/2" scale neck and one of the earliest Vintage/Modern construction with a headstock plug.  I guess no one can identify except perhaps Ken.

That body doesn't even look Warmoth to me, does it have the turtle stamp in the neck pocket?  The edge radius just looks wrong.

What about the side of the neck inside the lower cutaway?  Got a pic of that too?

I've been assembling Warmoth parts since the early 80's, not to mention handling thousands and thousands of bodies/necks during the year that I worked there, and that just doesn't look Warmoth to me.

Just like folks who work with real cash, they know the real cash because of continued exclusive handling of that cash.  When a counterfeit comes along, you just know when it is because it doesn't look or feel like the real thing.

In this case, the burned in stamp on the neck heel and the body's neck pocket are the most sure fire indicators of the real thing.

 

[aarontunes]

Hey guys...here is some info direct from Ken:

Square fingerboard ends – when we began making the 22 fret models we only did them with square ends – the gang saw simply cut the fretboard off where the 23rd fret would have fallen – and we left it that way. Once we switched to cutting slots with the CNC machine it became an option to do the rounded heel and we switched over to rounded for standard production.

Strat body shapes – in the early years we did not do an exact perimeter copy – it was more akin to the Kramer Berretta and the tummy cut area was narrower than a Fender. When we began programming body shapes to cut them with CNC we switched to a pretty stock Fender shape though without the bump at the bottom of the neck pocket.

As to dates for any of our production method changes – be darned if I know. I always just moved ahead with what was most in demand or whatever was the most expeditious method of construction, didn’t look back, pressed on ahead. We have made no attempt at dating, numbering, coding, etc. any of our parts.

Should the day ever come when Warmoth parts become collectible……pity the poor jokers attempting to date them. 

 

[aarontunes]

Based on Ken's input, I might guess that it's a really old one...probably from the 80's sometime.  :bananaguitar:

 

[BigSteve22]

What ever the age, that's one spiffy looking neck!

 

[Unwound G]

Ken, thanks for clearing up the body and neck changes over the years.  I believe a lot of builders will find what you have explained an insight to Warmoth's history.  Mostly, I date all my builds not because of any perceived vintage value but for my own records.  After all, I have been at it for nearly four decades (http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17247.0) and there are a lot to remember.  Some pieces may even bring back nostalgia which is not exactly a bad thing.  This Fiesta Red build have been a closet queen and hardly played by its pristine condition.  My memory slipped me as to when did I assembled it and therefore wish to date it generally.

Here is an image of the guitar in case anyone wants to see what a historical Warmoth Strat looks like....

 

[Unwound G]

Here is a relatively recent Fiesta Red Strat with a Warmoth body and a MIJ vintage neck.  This was for a Hank Marvin loyalist mounted with his namesake Kinman pickups and Hank's 7 pickup selection wiring using a push-pull pot.  Notice the waistline (or tummy cut) as compared to the one above.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I stand corrected, with apologies.

 

[Unwound G]

Cool, Tony.  You have actually helped me with some orders during your time at Warmoth's.  You gave me excellent service.

 

[musicispeace]

Unwound G, that neck sure has aged nicely. Hope that guitar still gets ample playing time. One of the Warmoth email newsletters should be devoted to some Warmoth history. I heard of Warmoth in the '80 before I quit for a LONG time and just showed up on their internet doorstep when I took up the guitar again not so long ago. When I decided I wanted to go with parts guitars Warmoth was the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I started becoming interested in Warmoth parts in the late 90s when they still had a paper catologue you mailed off for.  The Strat necks were squared off then and starting to offer a rounded option.  Their neck didn't come with neck holes drilled then either.

 

[Steve_Karl]

My first Warmoth is a mid 80's strat and it has the squared off neck.

 

[Unwound G]

Super Turbo Deluxe Custom, yes I remember those paper catalogues.  Sadly, I threw them all away after Warmoth's website came online.  I may have received all of them through the mail.  The black and white ones printed on off-white paper, the white and blue with colorless photos and the full colored ones.  These catalogues could be a good indication to date the products based on year of printing.  Another piece of history gone for me..... :sad1:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Wow!  That's dipping way back.  The "paper" ones I was referring to were color and magazine quality, about 1997.  I remember the finish options being squares at the bottom of a page, and transparent finishes were just luck as far it being on the wood you were hoping to see.  Trans red looking different on ash vs. mahogany for example.  What a time to be alive!

 

[john_a]

Yeah, "pinched waist" Strat (Warmoth) is where it's at!
Mine is 3/8" narrower than the 9" waist Fender, and I like the look..
It is a subtle difference.  Note the square end on the ebony fretboard overhang, 22 frets & padauk were new options at the time.
I  am sure the original invoice (hand-written, IIRC) is around here somewhere, I would like to see the date on this & the other early pieces I 've kept for myself.  I made a brown-black sunburst alder at the same time, still have it too.
John A