ColorTone Waterbase Grain Filler
- Thread starter shaneman
- Start date
You might want to try getting an old credit card (I have a blank "sample" card sent by a bank offer...). You can brush some filler on, spread it about VERY EVENLY with the card....scraping it into the grain. That is, scrape "crossgrain". Let it set up for at least two hours, four is better. Sand with 220 grit. Repeat, but sand with 320. Then repeat and sand with 320 or even 400 grit. At this point you're not wetsanding anything, and it takes a bunch of 400grit to get the filler off the body, so scrape it as thin as you can with that plastic, and dont leave any high spots, or you'll need to sand a bunch!
For paper - Home Depot has started carrying a 3m "Sandblaster" paper, that's a premium paper. The claim - "Lasts 3x Longer" is about right on most things. It clogs less too. But - IMPORTANT - you'll need clear the paper VERY frequently anyway, when sanding off the sealer. If you don't, you'll get a hard spot on the sanding block (yes, use a block like the rubber 3m sanding block at Home Depot). That hard spot will "gouge" the wood and give you more to do by way of correcting it. Do yourself a favor and check that paper every few strokes, and use a fingernail or even a small wire brush to get any clogs off the surface of the paper. For 400 grit you might get 2 strokes and have to whack the dust off the paper, then two more... etc... it being so fine, clogs more easily.
The results will be worth the effort. I made sure to take great pains in filling the ash body for the current thinline Tele. I thought the grain was about the same as the Grand Canyon... but after a few fill coats, and much sanding back, it was ready to go.
For paper - Home Depot has started carrying a 3m "Sandblaster" paper, that's a premium paper. The claim - "Lasts 3x Longer" is about right on most things. It clogs less too. But - IMPORTANT - you'll need clear the paper VERY frequently anyway, when sanding off the sealer. If you don't, you'll get a hard spot on the sanding block (yes, use a block like the rubber 3m sanding block at Home Depot). That hard spot will "gouge" the wood and give you more to do by way of correcting it. Do yourself a favor and check that paper every few strokes, and use a fingernail or even a small wire brush to get any clogs off the surface of the paper. For 400 grit you might get 2 strokes and have to whack the dust off the paper, then two more... etc... it being so fine, clogs more easily.
The results will be worth the effort. I made sure to take great pains in filling the ash body for the current thinline Tele. I thought the grain was about the same as the Grand Canyon... but after a few fill coats, and much sanding back, it was ready to go.
Perfect CB...Thank you! I'll Keep ya posted. It's black grain filler going on a mahogany VIP. I'm gong to stain it black then Tung oil it. It's a month long project. I'm hoping to be done just about the time my neck arrives. Catch ya later :icon_thumright:
Shane :guitaristgif:
Shane :guitaristgif:
jackthehack
Senior member
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- 5,630
There's a little filler scraper in the same page as the filler with a rubber edge that's handy...
Excellent. I forgot about the scraper w/ the rubber edge. So, I went to home depot and picked up a small squeegie. This grain filler seems really thin like paint. Should I just lightly brush this stuff on and and then maybe squeegie it off? Just a little aprehensive cause' I've read that this stuff can be a bitch to sand.
I'm ready to get crankin this morning so...I'll throw a little stain on it first, sand a little, then go for the grain filler process. Thanks guys.
Shane :guitaristgif:
I'm ready to get crankin this morning so...I'll throw a little stain on it first, sand a little, then go for the grain filler process. Thanks guys.
Shane :guitaristgif:
FIRST -
To stain first, then fill, or fill first then stain is important, as you want the look to be as envisioned. Do you want stain over filled pores, or stained pores filled? Keep in mind, your sanding will require more staining if you do that first. I had good results with staining after filling.
Next... This last one - I just dribbled the filler on, spread it and scraped it all at once, and smeared the scrapings right back onto another (clean) area of the work. Going as thin as possible cuts down work.
As Ben Franklin said of Telecaster finishing, "Filling the pores lightly, twice or thrice, is better than sanding by a dim candle's light." Or something like it.
To stain first, then fill, or fill first then stain is important, as you want the look to be as envisioned. Do you want stain over filled pores, or stained pores filled? Keep in mind, your sanding will require more staining if you do that first. I had good results with staining after filling.
Next... This last one - I just dribbled the filler on, spread it and scraped it all at once, and smeared the scrapings right back onto another (clean) area of the work. Going as thin as possible cuts down work.
As Ben Franklin said of Telecaster finishing, "Filling the pores lightly, twice or thrice, is better than sanding by a dim candle's light." Or something like it.
jackthehack
Senior member
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If using black grain filler, I'd fill then stain; the filler is likely to be a bit "blacker" than the stain; what kind of stain/dye are you using?
I thought it was always first stain then fill. Oh well, too late, I just applied the first coat of minwax golden pecan to my unfilled body. Now that it's dried a little, it looks lighter than it did initially; I'm going to hit it again with stain, then start filling.
Tim
Tim
jackthehack
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Sequence depends on desired effect and whether the filler is colored or not. If you're using clear filler, by all means stain then fill.
Hey Jack!
I am using Colortone Stain (Black) and ColorTone Waterbase Grain Filler (Black), then Behlens Tung Oil. I've already applied the Stain and sanded mildly w/ 220 grit. Nice and smooth now. I'm ready to (gulp) apply the grain filler. I'll keep ya posted. I'm going Slooow.... :guitaristgif:
Take it easy and catch ya later-
Shanus
I am using Colortone Stain (Black) and ColorTone Waterbase Grain Filler (Black), then Behlens Tung Oil. I've already applied the Stain and sanded mildly w/ 220 grit. Nice and smooth now. I'm ready to (gulp) apply the grain filler. I'll keep ya posted. I'm going Slooow.... :guitaristgif:
Take it easy and catch ya later-
Shanus
jackthehack
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The black on black should be okay, color-wise, but if you stained first you may need to reapply stain after filling as you may sand back the stain a bit evening the filler, especially at the edges of the body. Would be more problematic if using the black filler with a lighter stain.
guitarhobbyist
Active member
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- 34
shaneman said:
Man I wish I had found this site before starting my project. In regards to Shaneman's post above, can you use oil over waterbase? I thought you could not mix them. I wanted to do the Colortone, filler, etc thing but I was told it wouldn't take/mix. Since I wanted the last application to be Tung Oil, I wound up just oil staining then Tung Oil. Oh well, maybe I'll try next time.
Guitarhobbyiist,
I checked w/ stewmac before ordering the supplies to check for compatability. This is a most important step :icon_thumright: I've had good results so far. The Tung oil takes a while ti cure though and even though I've not added any more coats of Behlens Tung Oil (8 total) in three days, if I wipe it w/ a rag I still get a bit of stain that comes off the rag. So, I've used black dye and black grain filler, but the Mahogany body actually is a dark coffee bean color. It's really nice though and I'm happy, but if I was shooting for dark gothic black, I would have had to sand down a bit and stain again. Then again maybe I would have just painted it, because you can only get so dark w/ a stain. Anyway, welcome to the forum. You'll learn alot. I am. P.S. Your guitar looks awesome!
Shaneman :guitaristgif:
I checked w/ stewmac before ordering the supplies to check for compatability. This is a most important step :icon_thumright: I've had good results so far. The Tung oil takes a while ti cure though and even though I've not added any more coats of Behlens Tung Oil (8 total) in three days, if I wipe it w/ a rag I still get a bit of stain that comes off the rag. So, I've used black dye and black grain filler, but the Mahogany body actually is a dark coffee bean color. It's really nice though and I'm happy, but if I was shooting for dark gothic black, I would have had to sand down a bit and stain again. Then again maybe I would have just painted it, because you can only get so dark w/ a stain. Anyway, welcome to the forum. You'll learn alot. I am. P.S. Your guitar looks awesome!
Shaneman :guitaristgif:
Hello all.....
This afternoon I grain filled some scrap swamp ash that i'm using to learn to do the whole finishing process....
I have water based grain filler from stewmac.....
I just have a couple of questions....I want to make sure i'm going about this correctly.
First, I used a spoon and scooped on a generous amount of the GF onto the wood and used a credit card to spread it around. I find that where the edges of the CC move, it removes the GF from the wood leaving bare spots.....like if you ran a toothpick along the surface of a freshly painted piece of wood....any suggestions to try and avoid this? I hope that made sense....
The GF didn't dry as fast as I thought it would based on what i've read on here and in books.....even a few mins. later it seemed pretty wet.
The can says to wait 3-5 mins and then wipe off and when dry, sand.....
After I wipe the GF off......how long should I wait till I sand?? A few more mins?? A couple of hours?? Is this where the drying part happens?
Even though i've read up on the GF process and understand how to go about doing it, actually doing it made me wonder if I was doing it correctly.
Thanks!!!
This afternoon I grain filled some scrap swamp ash that i'm using to learn to do the whole finishing process....
I have water based grain filler from stewmac.....
I just have a couple of questions....I want to make sure i'm going about this correctly.
First, I used a spoon and scooped on a generous amount of the GF onto the wood and used a credit card to spread it around. I find that where the edges of the CC move, it removes the GF from the wood leaving bare spots.....like if you ran a toothpick along the surface of a freshly painted piece of wood....any suggestions to try and avoid this? I hope that made sense....
The GF didn't dry as fast as I thought it would based on what i've read on here and in books.....even a few mins. later it seemed pretty wet.
The can says to wait 3-5 mins and then wipe off and when dry, sand.....
After I wipe the GF off......how long should I wait till I sand?? A few more mins?? A couple of hours?? Is this where the drying part happens?
Even though i've read up on the GF process and understand how to go about doing it, actually doing it made me wonder if I was doing it correctly.
Thanks!!!
jackthehack
Senior member
- Messages
- 5,630
I wouldn't be heaping it on with a spoon. just to start out with...
With some wood types like swamp ash or mahogany, you must expect to do SEVERAL fills before this process is complete. I use a two inch paint brush and apply rather lightly, THEN scrape off excess not actually IN grain and daub excess into the grain pores.
Drying times varies greatly with relatively humidity and temperture. If it's a dry sunny day and you leave the body out in direct sunlight, it may dry in 2-3 hours. If it's cooler/humid at all, it can take more than 24 hours for each fill to dry. If working with swamp ash, I'd ALWAYS recommend at least 24 hours if not longer as the grain is a lot bigger than mahogany and ANYTHING you apply to swamp ash will shrink into the grain with a bit of time
If you don't let it dry COMPLETELY you will just sand most of the filler back out of the grain. Even when fully dry this will happen to some degree, and you MUST do multiple fills.
While this may be a little frustrating, you must be PATIENT, if you want a good professional result.
With some wood types like swamp ash or mahogany, you must expect to do SEVERAL fills before this process is complete. I use a two inch paint brush and apply rather lightly, THEN scrape off excess not actually IN grain and daub excess into the grain pores.
Drying times varies greatly with relatively humidity and temperture. If it's a dry sunny day and you leave the body out in direct sunlight, it may dry in 2-3 hours. If it's cooler/humid at all, it can take more than 24 hours for each fill to dry. If working with swamp ash, I'd ALWAYS recommend at least 24 hours if not longer as the grain is a lot bigger than mahogany and ANYTHING you apply to swamp ash will shrink into the grain with a bit of time
If you don't let it dry COMPLETELY you will just sand most of the filler back out of the grain. Even when fully dry this will happen to some degree, and you MUST do multiple fills.
While this may be a little frustrating, you must be PATIENT, if you want a good professional result.
First, I used a spoon and scooped on a generous amount of the GF onto the wood and used a credit card to spread it around. I find that where the edges of the CC move, it removes the GF from the wood leaving bare spots.....like if you ran a toothpick along the surface of a freshly painted piece of wood....any suggestions to try and avoid this? I hope that made sense....
Ideally, you want bare or nearly bare wood "surface" to minimize sanding. What I've gotten is just about bare, with hints of darker streaks where the card didn't quite get it all. Also I just dip the card in the can! Spread/scrape the goo into the pores using the face of the card to get it in there, and scrape it quick level with the edge... keep movin'! The idea is fill the pores, leave none on the surface. This is sorta like using drywall compound (spackle). Get that depression filled, but dont leave so much as to require lots of sanding.
The GF didn't dry as fast as I thought it would based on what i've read on here and in books.....even a few mins. later it seemed pretty wet. The can says to wait 3-5 mins and then wipe off and when dry, sand.....After I wipe the GF off......how long should I wait till I sand?? A few more mins?? A couple of hours?? Is this where the drying part happens?
You can speed the process, make it easier, by scraping it in to begin with, as you'll be giving it more than one fill anyway. Scrape it back to leave as little on as possible. No need to "pre-spread" the stuff with a brush, just go right to applying like drywall compound.
After that - let it dry at LEAST hours, if not over night or a full day. Filler will shrink into the pores a bit, so let it dry up really well before level sanding (USE A SANDING BLOCK, like the really strong smelling 3m rubber ones at Home Depot)
Ideally, you want bare or nearly bare wood "surface" to minimize sanding. What I've gotten is just about bare, with hints of darker streaks where the card didn't quite get it all. Also I just dip the card in the can! Spread/scrape the goo into the pores using the face of the card to get it in there, and scrape it quick level with the edge... keep movin'! The idea is fill the pores, leave none on the surface. This is sorta like using drywall compound (spackle). Get that depression filled, but dont leave so much as to require lots of sanding.
The GF didn't dry as fast as I thought it would based on what i've read on here and in books.....even a few mins. later it seemed pretty wet. The can says to wait 3-5 mins and then wipe off and when dry, sand.....After I wipe the GF off......how long should I wait till I sand?? A few more mins?? A couple of hours?? Is this where the drying part happens?
You can speed the process, make it easier, by scraping it in to begin with, as you'll be giving it more than one fill anyway. Scrape it back to leave as little on as possible. No need to "pre-spread" the stuff with a brush, just go right to applying like drywall compound.
After that - let it dry at LEAST hours, if not over night or a full day. Filler will shrink into the pores a bit, so let it dry up really well before level sanding (USE A SANDING BLOCK, like the really strong smelling 3m rubber ones at Home Depot)
[/quote] Ideally, you want bare or nearly bare wood "surface" to minimize sanding. What I've gotten is just about bare, with hints of darker streaks where the card didn't quite get it all. Also I just dip the card in the can! Spread/scrape the goo into the pores using the face of the card to get it in there, and scrape it quick level with the edge... keep movin'! The idea is fill the pores, leave none on the surface. This is sorta like using drywall compound (spackle). Get that depression filled, but dont leave so much as to require lots of sanding.[/quote]
Ahhhh ok...I understand now.
For some reason I was under the impression that the filler needed to cover the whole surface......seems obvious that it shouldnt, but as I was doing it thats what I was thinking.....
Thanks very mucho!!!
Ahhhh ok...I understand now.
For some reason I was under the impression that the filler needed to cover the whole surface......seems obvious that it shouldnt, but as I was doing it thats what I was thinking.....
Thanks very mucho!!!
