Cherry wood finishing

[-CB-]

Danish oil can be either a wax dissolved in solvents, such that the wax penetrates the wood and will build a bit of a waxy film (really thats what Danish oil "used to be").  Modern danish oils are very thin varnishes, as Watco's seems to be.

Let me say this again, since you're not getting the point -

DONT MIX FINISHES

 

[RLW]

Somewhere during the life of this thread, CB will be once again saying....

"Okay, I don't want to say I told you so, but..."

 

[DangerousR6]

Somewhere during the life of this thread, CB will be once again saying....

"Okay, I don't want to say I told you so, but..."

No i get it, and I believe him. Just wondering why someone else would be saying it's ok to do such.. But I'll take -CB-'s word for it and just pick one or the other....... :icon_thumright:

 

[-CB-]

Not knowing what the oil finish "really" is, you run into all sorts of computability issues, whereby the "hot solvent" lacquer will just do terrible things to whats under it.

On a  more aesthetic note - doing one then the other is just plain stupid.  If you take all the nice trouble to do either finish to a high degree of quality, and "issues" aside, why would you want to mix? 

 

[jackthehack]

I don't remember EVER seeing anyone recommending shooting nitro over Danish Oil? That's just crazy. I've used and recommended WATCO Danish Oil on various occasions, but if you apply that to wood, I would foresee nothing but major issues trying to shoot any form of lacquer on top of it...

If you want to darken just the back, but not the top, try using one of the MinWax oil based stains or a similar product to color the back and let it dry out COMPLETELY prior to applying the lacquer to the whole body.

 

[-CB-]

Or amber (or stained) pure tung oil, followed by regular clear tung oil on the top (and after-coats on the back)

 

[DangerousR6]

I don't remember EVER seeing anyone recommending shooting nitro over Danish Oil? That's just crazy. I've used and recommended WATCO Danish Oil on various occasions, but if you apply that to wood, I would foresee nothing but major issues trying to shoot any form of lacquer on top of it...

If you want to darken just the back, but not the top, try using one of the MinWax oil based stains or a similar product to color the back and let it dry out COMPLETELY prior to applying the lacquer to the whole body.

Not to be a smart ass just taking this at face value here. Maybe I read it wrong but that's exactly what you told me....

I don't actually recommend WATCO Danish Oil in every instance, just in a couple where they wanted to dupe a "natural oil finish" from an OEM or were scared to shoot lacquer. WATCO won't cut it for warranty purposes as far as Warmoth goes, and bare mahogany will suck up moisture probably as much or more than any other neck wood Warmoth sells. The Danish Oil will add a little color/make the grain pop a bit, but on a neck you need to just do a real light application, let it dry for a week or two, and then shoot at least 3-4 coats of satin nitro to completely seal the neck. Most Ace/True Value hardware stores that sell Deft in aerosol cans stock both the gloss and satin.

What do you have mahogany to finish?

 

[DangerousR6]

Ok -CB- or jack, one more bit of info I need. Reguardless of which way I choose to finish be it "pure tung oil" or the minwax stain with a clear satin laquer.

-Do i need to use any grain filler or sanding sealer, and what's the difference between the two? :dontknow:

i had just remembered the other day that I have some clear sanding sealer and some clear satin laquer that I bought from Stew Mac awhile back but never used, so I think that I'll just go with a minwax stain on the back and leave the top natural and then laquer the whole thing satin..... :sad1:

 

[-CB-]

Grain filler is a substance that is oil based, or water (latex) based.  Its about like paint... with silica in it.  It fills the deep grain.  It dries hard and you can sand it level.

Sanding sealer is a thick base coat, acting not like a primer, but a leveling layer, and barrier to prevent the final finish from sinking into the grain.  There are many sanding sealers, and you must choose one that is compatible with your filler and with your final finish.  Shellac makes an excellent all-round sanding sealer.

This last body I did, I used two layers of filler, black first, then brown, followed by super glue as a final "filler", then two coats of a lacquer type sealer.  By far the most level body I've ever done, is like the wood has the surface of Formica... smooth, hard, ready to finish.  I do have a few tiny spots to add a touch up of filler to - it didn't shrink in, I simply missed a few spots.

 

[DangerousR6]

Grain filler is a substance that is oil based, or water (latex) based.  Its about like paint... with silica in it.  It fills the deep grain.  It dries hard and you can sand it level.

Sanding sealer is a thick base coat, acting not like a primer, but a leveling layer, and barrier to prevent the final finish from sinking into the grain.  There are many sanding sealers, and you must choose one that is compatible with your filler and with your final finish.  Shellac makes an excellent all-round sanding sealer.

This last body I did, I used two layers of filler, black first, then brown, followed by super glue as a final "filler", then two coats of a lacquer type sealer.  By far the most level body I've ever done, is like the wood has the surface of Formica... smooth, hard, ready to finish.  I do have a few tiny spots to add a touch up of filler to - it didn't shrink in, I simply missed a few spots.

Well I'm not really sure as to the type of grain structure that cherry has. Would it really be necessary to do a grain filler, and just do a sanding sealer then level sand and then stain? And I know I sound like a retard, but I've never finished my own body before. That i was trying to acheive a decent finish.

 

[RLW]

> And I know I sound like a retard, but I've never finished my own body before.

Not really, you're asking some things that I can't grok. Finishing bewilders me. I simply cannot grasp how you seal the body, and THEN stain or color it. It just isn't logical to me. Logic, to me, dictates that you color the wood, and THEN seal it. I just really don't get it.

 

[DangerousR6]

> And I know I sound like a retard, but I've never finished my own body before.

Not really, you're asking some things that I can't grok. Finishing bewilders me. I simply cannot grasp how you seal the body, and THEN stain or color it. It just isn't logical to me. Logic, to me, dictates that you color the wood, and THEN seal it. I just really don't get it.

Very good point, cause it doesn't compute here either. May need to let the right brain take over for a while and open up the window and let reason out....... :dontknow:

 

[RLW]

This is what my dysfunctional brain tells me...

Grain fill, sand. Repeat until smooth as glass.

Color or stain. Sand as above.

Clear coat. Sand as above. Polish.

That's logical to me. Logic isnt always correct, though.

It's all academic to me, I have a carport. No garage. No place to set up a guitar area. Not to mention that my dog's metabolism seems to be 100% based on replacing the hair she sheds.

 

[jackthehack]

"Not to be a smart ass just taking this at face value here. Maybe I read it wrong but that's exactly what you told me...."

Without cut'n'pasting the whole thing, you're taking two different threads out of context and trying to extrapolate, which doesn't work. Doing a light wipe with Danish Oil (or lemon oil, or anything similar) to make the grain stand out a little more and letting it dry out a week or two before applying some other top finish is a very different kettle of fish than applying a Danish Oil finish, which is going to involve 20-30 coats built up and handrubbed and then applying some top finish over that.

"-Do i need to use any grain filler or sanding sealer, and what's the difference between the two? "

Depends on what you want the final finish to look like. The only woods I've worked with that don't require any real filling; you can just shoot with sanding sealer and level, are alder and maple. I've never worked with cherry, but from your pics it looks like you need to do some grain filling IF you want the final finish to look completely smooth, with out showing any grain pores. You can do it either way, depends on what you want the final finish to look like.

"Would it really be necessary to do a grain filler, and just do a sanding sealer then level sand and then stain? "

If you are going to stain, you want to do that PRIOR to using sanding sealer, the stain can't penetrate to the wood if sealer's applied.

". I simply cannot grasp how you seal the body, and THEN stain or color it. It just isn't logical to me."

That would be the procedure if you were using a transparent or opaque toner to apply the color; filler -> sealer -> toner -> top finish,

 

[DangerousR6]

Well I want it to be smooth, I'd like to leave the top natural. And darken the back just a bit, as it isn't figured like the top plus I'd like to have a contrast in color between the two.

-So I could clear grain fill entire body, stain the back..
-Sanding sealer next....Then clear satin for finish..

 

[DangerousR6]

Hey jack or -CB-, I got the cherry tele body in a week or so ago. Looks likes the builder has allready put a sanding sealer on it and did his final sanding with #320 grit.  So I guess I could just keep going with the sanding sealer some more  :dontknow:. And some more sanding?  :dontknow:  Although it feels really smooth now, and has a slight sheen to it. Maybe could just try the satin on it, see how things turn out... :icon_biggrin: Any suggestions... ???

I think he may have used shellac as a sanding sealer, cause he said his sealer was compatable with any top finish...

 

[jackthehack]

You really don't need to sand sealer any finer than #320 before applying top coats of whatever you're using; you'll be leveling the top finish later beyond that.

 

[DangerousR6]

You really don't need to sand sealer any finer than #320 before applying top coats of whatever you're using; you'll be leveling the top finish later beyond that.

Ok, cool. Thanks jack..

 

[DocNrock]

Sounds like tele cherry is taking on a life of her own.

 

[DangerousR6]

Sounds like tele cherry is taking on a life of her own.

Yes she is...... :doh: