calling all wiring experts...

[jorri]

For my Jazzmaster build i have it currently in the traditional setup, with rhythm circuit etc. just to see what its like. however i think its time i add the middle pickup for which it was routed for- a strat-jag novak p-up.

My idea for the wiring is to ditch the rhythm circuit, and instead use it as independant controls for the middle pickup. this allows me to switch from a jm lead circuit to something more like a strats middle positions, and get some nice blended sounds. simply using switch: on/off, 1meg vol, 1meg tone.

This seems simple enough, though i may find trouble with where to put grounds and someone to draw something up for me. however i am struggling with the other part of my idea: on the lead circuit, i want the volume to be a master volume. yet i want the tone to be independant for just the 'jm' part of the circuit.

as i understand themiddle p-up circuit needs to come in the chain after the tone, yet before the volume for this to work, but thats implausible as the voume is before th etone. can anyone help?is there a way to do this, or should i just settle with two different circuits( which wouldn't actually be bad, although its without volume swells it would allow me to single out the mid pup for 7 settings)

thanks in advance, i hope you can help.

 

[jorri]

OK, not to be impatient but i'm bumping this because i think i explained it in too convuluted way.

this wiring wont be too much off LP wiring, so if i was doing that:

mid 'circuit': independant volume
      independant tone

neck+bridge 'circuit': master volume- (for all pickups)
                                  independant tone

I'm curious as to how it could be done electronically. would i be able, for example to put the volume after tone in the circuit? how about pot values? would a master volume need a higher value to deal with all the extra cicuitry?

 

[exalted]

I'm not a wiring expert, but I don't think you can give the mid pickup it's own volume/tone and have it be independently switchable...once you switch it on, your neck/bridge pickup circuit would be exposed to the grounding in in the pots on the middle pickup, and if my understanding is correct, both volume pots would have equal control over volume and tone.

 

[bob7point7]

This should be fairly doable as far as the volumes go. When you wire the the volume for the middle pickup, the pot wiper should go to the pickup rather than the output. This will let you roll off the middle pickup without affecting the neck or bridge pickup volume. The master volume can still control all 3 pickups. The problem is with the tone controls. When the middle pickup is turned up, its tone control will affect the overall tone, not just the middle pickup's tone. Likewise, the lead circuit tone will always act as a master tone. A strat has the same issue, which is why many move the second tone control from the middle pickup to the bridge pickup. It may be best just to use the lead circuit's tone as the only tone control and either ignore the other tone control or use it as something else (bass contour?).

Hope this helps,
-Bobbie

 

[exalted]

Interesting read, Bob! Could you post a simple schematic on how you'd wire that volume pot to that pickup independent of the output?

 

[jorri]

I'm reading your responses and i'm not an electronics expert, I just wield a soldering iron, but:

a) i didn't think that this circuit would end up much different than a Les Paul, which in theory is the same but the switches are in different places.
I'm not seeing how, if the middle pickup is switched off, effectively the circuit being like a jazzmaster in lead setting the tone would affect everything else.

b) the strat idea is actually what i'm aiming for. they wont affect the other pickups, if like on a strat they are not selected, surely.

these arent criticisms of the suggestions, i'd like to check before i crack ahead..

 

[jorri]

I'm reading your responses and i'm not an electronics expert, I just wield a soldering iron, but:

a) i didn't think that this circuit would end up much different than a Les Paul, which in theory is the same but the switches are in different places.
I'm not seeing how, if the middle pickup is switched off, effectively the circuit being like a jazzmaster in lead setting the tone would affect everything else.

b) the strat idea is actually what i'm aiming for. they wont affect the other pickups, if like on a strat they are not selected, surely. i think the distinction here is i mean i want independant tones, like a strat does, rather than for example having one fully open sound mixed with a rolled off sound.

these arent criticisms of the suggestions, i'd like to check before i crack ahead..

p.s. what is a bass contour control?

 

[bob7point7]

Jorri,
Let me see if I can answer these...

a) The biggest difference between Les Paul wiring and what you're talking about is that when both pickups are selected on a Les Paul, turning one volume down all the way cuts out both pickups (assuming 'modern' wiring). What I'm understanding is that you want one volume to control only the middle pickup, while the other acts as a master volume. This is doable, but the wiring for the middle pickup's volume will need to be similar to the volume on a Jazz bass.

b) With standard Strat wiring, when both the neck and middle pickups are selected, both tone controls are active. Rolling one tone down rolls the treble off for both pickups (remember, the Strat wasn't designed with the notch positions in mind). I'm assuming you always want the lead tone to be active, which means that you would have 2 tone controls active any time you had the middle pickup on. That's cool if that's what you want, but I just want to be clear that rolling either tone knob off will roll treble off of every pickup selected. You can't roll off treble on the middle pickup while keeping all the treble in the neck pickup. Personally, I would just use a master tone knob for this configuration (my Strat is wired with only one tone knob, though, hehehehehe).

A bass contour is similar to a tone knob, except it rolls of bass rather than treble. I'm not sure if this is something you would want, but it's another idea for how to use that extra knob if you don't want 2 tone controls.

I'll try to remember to draw up a wiring diagram tonight....

-Bob

 

[bob7point7]

Here's a quick wiring diagram:

EDIT: Is anyone else getting an error when they open the attachment? I can't seem to get the pic to attach properly...

 

[Schlieren]

404

 

[jorri]

wow, thanks for drawing up a diagram(even know it didnt show)- dont usually get this help from forums

i wired up in standard JM without the middle pickup so far, and i'm plenty happy with that. its got a p90 in the bridge so its already sounding like two guitars, let alone with the strat-jag pickup not added yet.  my aim is an 'only guitar i'll need' idea, whether it ends up that way or not.

the 2-tones does keep the original preset tone idea of the jazzmaster a bit-or the strat infact- which i find useful because you can have two different tone caps so its different depending which you roll off. i definately notice on my strat that each tone sounds different, that could perhaps be the reason..

the jazzbass-ish option for volume i think, simply as it allows me to turn off the other pickups to isolate the middle one, but also as i find the jazzbass very versatile with that configuration.

I would like to doublecheck this isnt going to degrade the original sound in any way, and be more of an addition to the exisitng circuit..

bass contour seems quite good actually- in keeping with a jaguar strangle switch perhaps. there are endless possibilities really...i'll get the simple ciruit down and go back if there's something that can be done better..I've some more ideas for a custom pickguard if i need it that has alot more space for switches..

to clarify:

'rhythm'- mid on/off, mid volume, mid tone
'lead'- toggle neck/bridge, neck/bridge volume, neck/bridge tone.

 

[bob7point7]

Jorri,
I think the wiring diagram I made will do everything you want to do. I still can't seem to attach it from home or from work. I just get an error saying it's too big or something, but the file size is pretty small. I tried to email you the file - let me know if that works.

Thanks,
-Bobbie

 

[bpmorton777]

I know people are gonna bash my master V/T idea but that is how I set up my guitars...my Warmoth has three SD stagmags and a lespaul 3way toggle. push-pull turns on the middle pickup. Master volume dosent get muddy when you turn it down and I dont get any volume or tone surprises when I switch puickups. :icon_thumright:

Brian

 

[jorri]

thanks thanks thanks. this is very helpful. got the file on email..

it looks alright. i'll try posting it in a bit.