Blue Strat replica (Weezer content)

[booneh]

Yeah, definitely. You can hear a bit of the RATM influence in The Answer Man for example.

You’re right. I just measured an original 90s model and one coil (not sure which) is slightly higher DC resistance.

5.69k series
2.47k split

Which would suggest the other coil is around 3.22k. Dimarzio’s spec lists 5.82k wired for full output.

Having said all of that, I have a guitar with some of the 80s Super 2s (the ones encased in plastic) and they sound quite different from the new ones. Not sure if it’s age, but the DC resistance is around the same.

The red one has definitely been more of a challenge to figure out. I think the main mystery with the blue one is the wiring - it sounds like it might have had a different wiring setup initially, but was simplified for the dual volumes not long after. If that’s the case, the question is whether it’s a master volume and neck volume, or if they’re independent. And thanks for that.

That’s possible. I recall there was also a newer black LP Standard of some kind, but I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere. Based on what Chris Shaw said, there was definitely more equipment used than what they brought in from their live setup.

Also, I discovered the original Wilkinson nut is 42mm, while the currently available LSR is 43mm. If the original guitar had the Wilkinson, it’s possible that the nut width was 41mm, given that the nut still appeared to be too wide.

View attachment 58802

I'll be using the LSR as I spec'd the neck out for 43mm. I prefer the design though, since the Wilkinson has to be glued on, while the LSR uses screws.

I was only curious because the output is a big component of that “Only In Dreams” sound. It makes sense that it’d be according to the diagram. I’m assuming that’d be the top coil, which I think is the higher output one.

Magnets do degauss over time, but I think ceramic magnets last a long time. It could have been changes in parts in the pickups.

I think the wiring probably isn’t a huge deal, although it would be cool to see under the pickguard to get it exact. If it did have a Black Ice or some other exotic tone control, it wouldn’t be hard to replicate with your amp or a Super Distortion. If it’s some kind of unique volume layout, ones mileage would definitely vary there.

I heard there was a Les Paul Jr. that probably wasn’t used, the Les Paul Special, the Jaguar, another Telecaster (or Rivers used Jason’s before he was fired), and Chris Shaw’s 1981 Strat. I’m sure there were other guitars too but haven’t heard anything definitive. There was the Mesa and the SL-X, and a possible other Marshall, and a blackface Twin for cleans. There was an Ampeg VT-22 set up in the studio, but I don’t know if it ever got used. Jason had a “black and gold” Marshall Silver Jubilee.

Interesting. I wouldn’t think that the nut width was that narrow. Maybe going for a Gibson feel? I wonder if that’s the same for the rest of his Strats. It’s a shame that the Wilkinson won’t fit but at least you’ll have the string guide.

Oddly enough, I just recently got followed on Instagram by a French guitar strap company called Tom’s Vintage Straps that makes an (almost) replica of the Ace strap. I can DM you a link if you want to check it out. It’s like €40, so I don’t know if it’s a deal exactly with shipping included, but it is a lot more well constructed than an original.

EDIT: I found an American company called Souldier that also makes a strap with the same pattern. The pattern is called Monterey.

 

[kerouac]

I was only curious because the output is a big component of that “Only In Dreams” sound. It makes sense that it’d be according to the diagram. I’m assuming that’d be the top coil, which I think is the higher output one.

Magnets do degauss over time, but I think ceramic magnets last a long time. It could have been changes in parts in the pickups.

I think the wiring probably isn’t a huge deal, although it would be cool to see under the pickguard to get it exact. If it did have a Black Ice or some other exotic tone control, it wouldn’t be hard to replicate with your amp or a Super Distortion. If it’s some kind of unique volume layout, ones mileage would definitely vary there.

I heard there was a Les Paul Jr. that probably wasn’t used, the Les Paul Special, the Jaguar, another Telecaster (or Rivers used Jason’s before he was fired), and Chris Shaw’s 1981 Strat. I’m sure there were other guitars too but haven’t heard anything definitive. There was the Mesa and the SL-X, and a possible other Marshall, and a blackface Twin for cleans. There was an Ampeg VT-22 set up in the studio, but I don’t know if it ever got used. Jason had a “black and gold” Marshall Silver Jubilee.

Interesting. I wouldn’t think that the nut width was that narrow. Maybe going for a Gibson feel? I wonder if that’s the same for the rest of his Strats. It’s a shame that the Wilkinson won’t fit but at least you’ll have the string guide.

Oddly enough, I just recently got followed on Instagram by a French guitar strap company called Tom’s Vintage Straps that makes an (almost) replica of the Ace strap. I can DM you a link if you want to check it out. It’s like €40, so I don’t know if it’s a deal exactly with shipping included, but it is a lot more well constructed than an original.

EDIT: I found an American company called Souldier that also makes a strap with the same pattern. The pattern is called Monterey.

Yeah that makes sense. I've had a few of the old Super 2s and they all sound very similar, but not like the current ones. I'm guessing it changed when they started using the standard humbucker housing (late 80s?)

Definitely. I was watching the Bizarre 96 video recently and as far as I can tell, they're independent. You can also hear him switch between the pickups and there's quite a difference in low end. I've found that to be the case with the TB-59 and Super 2.

Yep that matches what I've heard. There was also a Marshall combo of some kind, but I doubt it was being used. Also, would you happen to have the info on where Chris Shaw mentioned the EHX Graphic Fuzz? I can't remember whether it was for guitar or bass.

I was surprised, considering it was supposedly meant to be a thicker neck. Possible that it's not the matching Wilkinson, but something else. The LSR version still fits the neck I got, so not a problem.

Sure, I'd be interested. I got one of the Ace straps, but it's starting to fall apart.

As for the replica, I'm hoping to have it finished this week - will post some pictures and maybe a sound clip.

 

[booneh]

Yeah that makes sense. I've had a few of the old Super 2s and they all sound very similar, but not like the current ones. I'm guessing it changed when they started using the standard humbucker housing (late 80s?)

Definitely. I was watching the Bizarre 96 video recently and as far as I can tell, they're independent. You can also hear him switch between the pickups and there's quite a difference in low end. I've found that to be the case with the TB-59 and Super 2.

Yep that matches what I've heard. There was also a Marshall combo of some kind, but I doubt it was being used. Also, would you happen to have the info on where Chris Shaw mentioned the EHX Graphic Fuzz? I can't remember whether it was for guitar or bass.

I was surprised, considering it was supposedly meant to be a thicker neck. Possible that it's not the matching Wilkinson, but something else. The LSR version still fits the neck I got, so not a problem.

Sure, I'd be interested. I got one of the Ace straps, but it's starting to fall apart.

As for the replica, I'm hoping to have it finished this week - will post some pictures and maybe a sound clip.

I know that the metal parts in pickups can have a filtering effect, so I imagine that using a different baseplate or pole pieces could subtly change the EQ curve of a pickup.

It’s a lot more obvious now, but I kind of always assumed he was just using his bridge pickup all the time, but he’s constantly switching around even on newer songs. Rivers is very good at playing his electronics, not just the guitar. It’s hard to tell if it’s all instinctual for him or if he’s being secretive about it.

I could probably find the post, but I remember it pretty well. The Graphic Fuzz was used for the bass “solo” part of “In The Garage.” It was inserted into the channel on the mixer, which Chris Shaw said was the only way that pedal sounds good. I don’t think he mentioned whether it was through the mic on the B-15 or through the DI, or if they were mixed down.

Yeah, but I think the Squier Contemporaries might have had pretty thin necks, like an Ibanez. So even a standard neck would be thicker. I do know they were the vintage Fender width. Just when you think you’re getting things figured out, there’s another mystery. At least you still had the LSR as an option.

I’m not sure how the forum is about advertising products so I’ll PM you, but either strap option is a good choice, but neither of them are perfect reproductions.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

 

[booneh]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

 

[kerouac]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

That's what I was thinking. Important to note that he always had the amps set distorted - no channel switching going on.

I imagine the black ice would be pretty subtle if it's going into a distorted amp. There is a smoothing effect that it adds, but the original (discontinued) version doesn't have much clipping from what I remember. I remember liking the DIY version a lot more

Definitely possible. Thanks for that!

Yes, the narrow spaced bridge (54mm spacing) has the same mounting hole pattern as the ESP. You'll have to drill for the two top screws though

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

Maybe it was only the blue one that was wired that way. There are pictures of the black one somewhere, and the second control knob has the numbers marked on the pickguard (suggesting it was turned down, but only slightly)

Red Strat is done (at least for now) - I'll try to upload some sound clips of the neck pickup.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

Was he specifically talking about his Warmoth?
He went on Mark Hoppus’ radio show last year and when asked about his gear he mentioned his Les Paul Jr. and Mesa Boogie amp which is what he uses till this day in the studio so he could’ve been referring to that, maybe?

I’ve heard about that but considering his musical background and guitar heroes it makes sense why he wouldn’t consider himself a technical guy.
Haha and I know what you’re talking about, I rewatched/listened to the podcast just to make sure but I genuinely don’t think he’s doing it deliberately, he seems excited throughout the whole interview jumping in whenever he can and tbh Rivers doesn’t strike me as that kind of person considering he’s an incredibly open musician/artist when it comes to every other aspect of his creative process.

Yea, I was thinking of contacting them through their website to get a bit more info on its availability but I’ll need to install a translator first.

That's what I was thinking. Important to note that he always had the amps set distorted - no channel switching going on.

I imagine the black ice would be pretty subtle if it's going into a distorted amp. There is a smoothing effect that it adds, but the original (discontinued) version doesn't have much clipping from what I remember. I remember liking the DIY version a lot more

Definitely possible. Thanks for that!

Yes, the narrow spaced bridge (54mm spacing) has the same mounting hole pattern as the ESP. You'll have to drill for the two top screws though




Maybe it was only the blue one that was wired that way. There are pictures of the black one somewhere, and the second control knob has the numbers marked on the pickguard (suggesting it was turned down, but only slightly)

Red Strat is done (at least for now) - I'll try to upload some sound clips of the neck pickup.

Exactly!

I was told by the Black Ice guys that the ‘hot’ wiring is pretty close to the original discontinued one if anyone is interested but yeah I can’t imagine it making much of a difference when using an already overdriven amp

And you might be right about the original blue having different wiring since not only was the 2nd knob marked on every subsequent build but also locked in place with tape, which is odd considering the amount of fiddling he used to do while playing the blue one.
But if that’s the case it didn’t stick cause it seems he went back to the vol 1 vol 2 wiring for the one he currently uses. He exclusively used the neck pickup throughout this performance of Say It Ain’t So and not once did he touch that 1st knob, it was the 2nd knob that got all the use.

Let’s hear it man!

 

[kerouac]

@fridgelightbulb I get the impression he’s pretty knowledgeable about gear, but isn’t eager to discuss it - at least on the level of detail we do.

Jason seems more like the type that would be interested. Luckily he has a good memory -

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Still need to figure out that bridge pickup, but I’m thinking it was either the Fender humbucker that was mentioned earlier or a Super Distortion.

Yeah, I remember reading that the black one had electronic issues at first, as they didn’t know how the blue one was wired. You can see there’s a 3 and 4 to use as a reference:



I imagine the tone being backed off slightly had to do with the Boss DS-2 he was using on solos during Green era. The turbo mode has a midrange spike, and it can be even more pronounced if the guitar’s tone control is turned down.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Hello again, I have a question and a theory

The question is for you @kerouac, it’s regarding the pick guard of the blue strat
You said the only material that seemed to be a perfect match for the blue one was Allparts and I agree but the one you’ve got looks pretty spot on to me, is that one not from Warmoth? I know when it comes to Warmoth looks tend to vary quite a lot so I just assumed you got lucky


As for my theory; it’s about the bridge pick up on the red strat
Assuming Karl is right about it being a Seymour Duncan, wouldn’t it be possible that the logo got removed accidentally (or not) when Rivers was getting rid of the psychedelic paint job?

 

[booneh]

Hello again, I have a question and a theory

The question is for you @kerouac, it’s regarding the pick guard of the blue strat
You said the only material that seemed to be a perfect match for the blue one was Allparts and I agree but the one you’ve got looks pretty spot on to me, is that one not from Warmoth? I know when it comes to Warmoth looks tend to vary quite a lot so I just assumed you got lucky


As for my theory; it’s about the bridge pick up on the red strat
Assuming Karl is right about it being a Seymour Duncan, wouldn’t it be possible that the logo got removed accidentally (or not) when Rivers was getting rid of the psychedelic paint job?

I don't think he ever scraped the paint off of the pickup, just the guitar body and the flat bits of the hardware. There's an "insignia" painted on the headstock that looks like Rivers tried to remove but you can still faintly see it. You can see the same white splotches on the bridge pickup in every picture. If it is a Seymour Duncan, the simplest possibility is that Jason just painted over the logo in black.