Blue Strat replica (Weezer content)

[booneh]

Yeah, definitely. You can hear a bit of the RATM influence in The Answer Man for example.

You’re right. I just measured an original 90s model and one coil (not sure which) is slightly higher DC resistance.

5.69k series
2.47k split

Which would suggest the other coil is around 3.22k. Dimarzio’s spec lists 5.82k wired for full output.

Having said all of that, I have a guitar with some of the 80s Super 2s (the ones encased in plastic) and they sound quite different from the new ones. Not sure if it’s age, but the DC resistance is around the same.

The red one has definitely been more of a challenge to figure out. I think the main mystery with the blue one is the wiring - it sounds like it might have had a different wiring setup initially, but was simplified for the dual volumes not long after. If that’s the case, the question is whether it’s a master volume and neck volume, or if they’re independent. And thanks for that.

That’s possible. I recall there was also a newer black LP Standard of some kind, but I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere. Based on what Chris Shaw said, there was definitely more equipment used than what they brought in from their live setup.

Also, I discovered the original Wilkinson nut is 42mm, while the currently available LSR is 43mm. If the original guitar had the Wilkinson, it’s possible that the nut width was 41mm, given that the nut still appeared to be too wide.

View attachment 58802

I'll be using the LSR as I spec'd the neck out for 43mm. I prefer the design though, since the Wilkinson has to be glued on, while the LSR uses screws.

I was only curious because the output is a big component of that “Only In Dreams” sound. It makes sense that it’d be according to the diagram. I’m assuming that’d be the top coil, which I think is the higher output one.

Magnets do degauss over time, but I think ceramic magnets last a long time. It could have been changes in parts in the pickups.

I think the wiring probably isn’t a huge deal, although it would be cool to see under the pickguard to get it exact. If it did have a Black Ice or some other exotic tone control, it wouldn’t be hard to replicate with your amp or a Super Distortion. If it’s some kind of unique volume layout, ones mileage would definitely vary there.

I heard there was a Les Paul Jr. that probably wasn’t used, the Les Paul Special, the Jaguar, another Telecaster (or Rivers used Jason’s before he was fired), and Chris Shaw’s 1981 Strat. I’m sure there were other guitars too but haven’t heard anything definitive. There was the Mesa and the SL-X, and a possible other Marshall, and a blackface Twin for cleans. There was an Ampeg VT-22 set up in the studio, but I don’t know if it ever got used. Jason had a “black and gold” Marshall Silver Jubilee.

Interesting. I wouldn’t think that the nut width was that narrow. Maybe going for a Gibson feel? I wonder if that’s the same for the rest of his Strats. It’s a shame that the Wilkinson won’t fit but at least you’ll have the string guide.

Oddly enough, I just recently got followed on Instagram by a French guitar strap company called Tom’s Vintage Straps that makes an (almost) replica of the Ace strap. I can DM you a link if you want to check it out. It’s like €40, so I don’t know if it’s a deal exactly with shipping included, but it is a lot more well constructed than an original.

EDIT: I found an American company called Souldier that also makes a strap with the same pattern. The pattern is called Monterey.

 

[kerouac]

I was only curious because the output is a big component of that “Only In Dreams” sound. It makes sense that it’d be according to the diagram. I’m assuming that’d be the top coil, which I think is the higher output one.

Magnets do degauss over time, but I think ceramic magnets last a long time. It could have been changes in parts in the pickups.

I think the wiring probably isn’t a huge deal, although it would be cool to see under the pickguard to get it exact. If it did have a Black Ice or some other exotic tone control, it wouldn’t be hard to replicate with your amp or a Super Distortion. If it’s some kind of unique volume layout, ones mileage would definitely vary there.

I heard there was a Les Paul Jr. that probably wasn’t used, the Les Paul Special, the Jaguar, another Telecaster (or Rivers used Jason’s before he was fired), and Chris Shaw’s 1981 Strat. I’m sure there were other guitars too but haven’t heard anything definitive. There was the Mesa and the SL-X, and a possible other Marshall, and a blackface Twin for cleans. There was an Ampeg VT-22 set up in the studio, but I don’t know if it ever got used. Jason had a “black and gold” Marshall Silver Jubilee.

Interesting. I wouldn’t think that the nut width was that narrow. Maybe going for a Gibson feel? I wonder if that’s the same for the rest of his Strats. It’s a shame that the Wilkinson won’t fit but at least you’ll have the string guide.

Oddly enough, I just recently got followed on Instagram by a French guitar strap company called Tom’s Vintage Straps that makes an (almost) replica of the Ace strap. I can DM you a link if you want to check it out. It’s like €40, so I don’t know if it’s a deal exactly with shipping included, but it is a lot more well constructed than an original.

EDIT: I found an American company called Souldier that also makes a strap with the same pattern. The pattern is called Monterey.

Yeah that makes sense. I've had a few of the old Super 2s and they all sound very similar, but not like the current ones. I'm guessing it changed when they started using the standard humbucker housing (late 80s?)

Definitely. I was watching the Bizarre 96 video recently and as far as I can tell, they're independent. You can also hear him switch between the pickups and there's quite a difference in low end. I've found that to be the case with the TB-59 and Super 2.

Yep that matches what I've heard. There was also a Marshall combo of some kind, but I doubt it was being used. Also, would you happen to have the info on where Chris Shaw mentioned the EHX Graphic Fuzz? I can't remember whether it was for guitar or bass.

I was surprised, considering it was supposedly meant to be a thicker neck. Possible that it's not the matching Wilkinson, but something else. The LSR version still fits the neck I got, so not a problem.

Sure, I'd be interested. I got one of the Ace straps, but it's starting to fall apart.

As for the replica, I'm hoping to have it finished this week - will post some pictures and maybe a sound clip.

 

[booneh]

Yeah that makes sense. I've had a few of the old Super 2s and they all sound very similar, but not like the current ones. I'm guessing it changed when they started using the standard humbucker housing (late 80s?)

Definitely. I was watching the Bizarre 96 video recently and as far as I can tell, they're independent. You can also hear him switch between the pickups and there's quite a difference in low end. I've found that to be the case with the TB-59 and Super 2.

Yep that matches what I've heard. There was also a Marshall combo of some kind, but I doubt it was being used. Also, would you happen to have the info on where Chris Shaw mentioned the EHX Graphic Fuzz? I can't remember whether it was for guitar or bass.

I was surprised, considering it was supposedly meant to be a thicker neck. Possible that it's not the matching Wilkinson, but something else. The LSR version still fits the neck I got, so not a problem.

Sure, I'd be interested. I got one of the Ace straps, but it's starting to fall apart.

As for the replica, I'm hoping to have it finished this week - will post some pictures and maybe a sound clip.

I know that the metal parts in pickups can have a filtering effect, so I imagine that using a different baseplate or pole pieces could subtly change the EQ curve of a pickup.

It’s a lot more obvious now, but I kind of always assumed he was just using his bridge pickup all the time, but he’s constantly switching around even on newer songs. Rivers is very good at playing his electronics, not just the guitar. It’s hard to tell if it’s all instinctual for him or if he’s being secretive about it.

I could probably find the post, but I remember it pretty well. The Graphic Fuzz was used for the bass “solo” part of “In The Garage.” It was inserted into the channel on the mixer, which Chris Shaw said was the only way that pedal sounds good. I don’t think he mentioned whether it was through the mic on the B-15 or through the DI, or if they were mixed down.

Yeah, but I think the Squier Contemporaries might have had pretty thin necks, like an Ibanez. So even a standard neck would be thicker. I do know they were the vintage Fender width. Just when you think you’re getting things figured out, there’s another mystery. At least you still had the LSR as an option.

I’m not sure how the forum is about advertising products so I’ll PM you, but either strap option is a good choice, but neither of them are perfect reproductions.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

 

[booneh]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

 

[kerouac]

Thank god I found this thread, I’ve been debating about the Black Ice mod in my head for days, had the same points and counterpoints for both sides and came to the same conclusion; no Black Ice, vol 1 for bridge and vol 2 for neck.
Big part of it was due to the Bizarre show as you pointed out with the significant difference in low end when switching to the bridge pick up which is something you can also hear at the very end of the live performance of Undone (Conan) when Rivers starts messing around with the switch selector.
I’m convinced the “quiet-yet-crunchy" tone Karl talked about during the quiet parts of Say it Ain’t So was just the sound of the Super 2
And if we were to Occam's Razor this it would explain why both knobs were labeled ‘volume’.

Pretty sure I’ve talked to you on another forum, Kerouac
It’s been over a year but I wouldn’t forget a replica like yours; the best I’ve seen!
I’m still looking for an ESP bridge but not luck, I did however get a temporary narrow strat bridge like you recommended.

Also, pretty cool seeing people building red strat replicas!

That's what I was thinking. Important to note that he always had the amps set distorted - no channel switching going on.

I imagine the black ice would be pretty subtle if it's going into a distorted amp. There is a smoothing effect that it adds, but the original (discontinued) version doesn't have much clipping from what I remember. I remember liking the DIY version a lot more

Definitely possible. Thanks for that!

Yes, the narrow spaced bridge (54mm spacing) has the same mounting hole pattern as the ESP. You'll have to drill for the two top screws though

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

Maybe it was only the blue one that was wired that way. There are pictures of the black one somewhere, and the second control knob has the numbers marked on the pickguard (suggesting it was turned down, but only slightly)

Red Strat is done (at least for now) - I'll try to upload some sound clips of the neck pickup.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Hi, sorry it took so long to see this. I'm still not totally convinced it's two volumes, mostly because Rivers has stated that his guitars have a volume and a tone knob. He's notoriously cagey about certain details about his equipment, and claims it's because he's not really technical, but that's completely untrue. I'm convinced it's deliberate. In a recent interview with Conan O'Brien, Conan started trying to ask him about guitars and Rivers totally interrupted him and changed the subject so deftly that Conan didn't even notice. He could be straight up lying about the knobs. Regardless, I've heard a Black Ice circuit into a high gain amp, and it sounds a lot like a Boss DS-1 with the gain up and volume down, which is how Rivers sets his. So I don't think it's a critical thing to get right.

From what I've found, ESP made the bridge up until just a few years ago when they redesigned it, but it's only been available in Japan. It might be relatively easy to find one over there, but not cheap.

Was he specifically talking about his Warmoth?
He went on Mark Hoppus’ radio show last year and when asked about his gear he mentioned his Les Paul Jr. and Mesa Boogie amp which is what he uses till this day in the studio so he could’ve been referring to that, maybe?

I’ve heard about that but considering his musical background and guitar heroes it makes sense why he wouldn’t consider himself a technical guy.
Haha and I know what you’re talking about, I rewatched/listened to the podcast just to make sure but I genuinely don’t think he’s doing it deliberately, he seems excited throughout the whole interview jumping in whenever he can and tbh Rivers doesn’t strike me as that kind of person considering he’s an incredibly open musician/artist when it comes to every other aspect of his creative process.

Yea, I was thinking of contacting them through their website to get a bit more info on its availability but I’ll need to install a translator first.

That's what I was thinking. Important to note that he always had the amps set distorted - no channel switching going on.

I imagine the black ice would be pretty subtle if it's going into a distorted amp. There is a smoothing effect that it adds, but the original (discontinued) version doesn't have much clipping from what I remember. I remember liking the DIY version a lot more

Definitely possible. Thanks for that!

Yes, the narrow spaced bridge (54mm spacing) has the same mounting hole pattern as the ESP. You'll have to drill for the two top screws though




Maybe it was only the blue one that was wired that way. There are pictures of the black one somewhere, and the second control knob has the numbers marked on the pickguard (suggesting it was turned down, but only slightly)

Red Strat is done (at least for now) - I'll try to upload some sound clips of the neck pickup.

Exactly!

I was told by the Black Ice guys that the ‘hot’ wiring is pretty close to the original discontinued one if anyone is interested but yeah I can’t imagine it making much of a difference when using an already overdriven amp

And you might be right about the original blue having different wiring since not only was the 2nd knob marked on every subsequent build but also locked in place with tape, which is odd considering the amount of fiddling he used to do while playing the blue one.
But if that’s the case it didn’t stick cause it seems he went back to the vol 1 vol 2 wiring for the one he currently uses. He exclusively used the neck pickup throughout this performance of Say It Ain’t So and not once did he touch that 1st knob, it was the 2nd knob that got all the use.

Let’s hear it man!

 

[kerouac]

@fridgelightbulb I get the impression he’s pretty knowledgeable about gear, but isn’t eager to discuss it - at least on the level of detail we do.

Jason seems more like the type that would be interested. Luckily he has a good memory -

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

Vocaroo is a quick and easy way to share voice messages over the interwebs.

voca.ro

Still need to figure out that bridge pickup, but I’m thinking it was either the Fender humbucker that was mentioned earlier or a Super Distortion.

Yeah, I remember reading that the black one had electronic issues at first, as they didn’t know how the blue one was wired. You can see there’s a 3 and 4 to use as a reference:



I imagine the tone being backed off slightly had to do with the Boss DS-2 he was using on solos during Green era. The turbo mode has a midrange spike, and it can be even more pronounced if the guitar’s tone control is turned down.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

Hello again, I have a theory

Assuming Karl is right about it being a Seymour Duncan, wouldn’t it be possible that the logo got removed accidentally (or not) when Rivers was getting rid of the psychedelic paint job?

 

[booneh]

Hello again, I have a question and a theory

The question is for you @kerouac, it’s regarding the pick guard of the blue strat
You said the only material that seemed to be a perfect match for the blue one was Allparts and I agree but the one you’ve got looks pretty spot on to me, is that one not from Warmoth? I know when it comes to Warmoth looks tend to vary quite a lot so I just assumed you got lucky


As for my theory; it’s about the bridge pick up on the red strat
Assuming Karl is right about it being a Seymour Duncan, wouldn’t it be possible that the logo got removed accidentally (or not) when Rivers was getting rid of the psychedelic paint job?

I don't think he ever scraped the paint off of the pickup, just the guitar body and the flat bits of the hardware. There's an "insignia" painted on the headstock that looks like Rivers tried to remove but you can still faintly see it. You can see the same white splotches on the bridge pickup in every picture. If it is a Seymour Duncan, the simplest possibility is that Jason just painted over the logo in black.

 

[kerouac]

Sorry, not checked this thread in ages.

@fridgelightbulb Regarding the pickguard, it was cut from an Allparts blank.

The reason I believe the original was Allparts is due to the bridge pickup placement. I noticed their pickguards have the bridge pickup slightly closer to the neck than Warmoth, WD, etc.



They don’t offer one with this configuration as standard, but I did use their HSH pickguard as a reference for the neck and bridge pickup cutouts. The control placement was based on pictures of the original.

I can’t tell for sure what the red one had, as it has the surround added. It does look closer to the Warmoth material.

I finished it a while back, but ended up getting a mid 80s Squier Contemporary Strat. I just need to have it routed for the middle pickup. It's actually quite heavy - I don't think it's basswood like the late 80s ones.



I believe the original was either this or the late 80s Boxer series due to the saddles. There are repros from Armadillo Guitar, but they’re raw brass.

Geometric Cut-Out Style Saddles – Brass Alloy

“Geometric cut-out” style saddles. .425 wide, .812 long, .25 thick. Made from brass alloy 360. Set of 6. Available for Vintage 2.125″ spacing or American Standard 2.062″ sp…

www.armadilloguitar.com

@booneh Hopefully he won’t mind me sharing - but I asked Jason about the bridge pickup a while back. Seymour Duncan JB.

I do wonder if the blue one had the same pickup… I could see it working better, as there’s a pretty significant voicing difference between the TB-59 and Super 2.

I think Rivers’ current guitars have the 59 though. They’re standard spacing and don’t have the logo.

 

[booneh]

Sorry, not checked this thread in ages.

@fridgelightbulb Regarding the pickguard, it was cut from an Allparts blank.

The reason I believe the original was Allparts is due to the bridge pickup placement. I noticed their pickguards have the bridge pickup slightly closer to the neck than Warmoth, WD, etc.

View attachment 60457

They don’t offer one with this configuration as standard, but I did use their HSH pickguard as a reference for the neck and bridge pickup cutouts. The control placement was based on pictures of the original.

I can’t tell for sure what the red one had, as it has the surround added. It does look closer to the Warmoth material.

I finished it a while back, but ended up getting a mid 80s Squier Contemporary Strat. I just need to have it routed for the middle pickup. It's actually quite heavy - I don't think it's basswood like the late 80s ones.

View attachment 60458

I believe the original was either this or the late 80s Boxer series due to the saddles. There are repros from Armadillo Guitar, but they’re raw brass.

Geometric Cut-Out Style Saddles – Brass Alloy

“Geometric cut-out” style saddles. .425 wide, .812 long, .25 thick. Made from brass alloy 360. Set of 6. Available for Vintage 2.125″ spacing or American Standard 2.062″ sp…

www.armadilloguitar.com

@booneh Hopefully he won’t mind me sharing - but I asked Jason about the bridge pickup a while back. Seymour Duncan JB.

I do wonder if the blue one had the same pickup… I could see it working better, as there’s a pretty significant voicing difference between the TB-59 and Super 2.

I think Rivers’ current guitars have the 59 though. They’re standard spacing and don’t have the logo.

Good to hear what you've been up to. The replica is getting pretty involved, which I'm pretty interested to see.

I guess Karl's old info about the pickups was pretty good. Curious to hear anything else Jason said, but understand if you don't want to broadcast it. I've considered messaging him too with a few questions, but since a new guitar isn't a wise choice at the moment I've held off on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the original Blue was a JB either, it does seem more fitting. I think his current Strats possibly have Gibson pickups in the bridge at the moment, though. I noticed that at least one of his SGs had the tuners replaced with Sperzels a few years ago, and at around the same time had a Seymour Duncan pickup installed in the bridge. When he started using the Strats again, the bridge pickups weren't f-spaced and didn't have SD logos. His backup, the new Blue, even has zebra bobbins. These could be hastily purchased 59s to replace the ones that went into his SGs, or they could be the old SG pickups, which seems likely to me.

 

[kerouac]

Good to hear what you've been up to. The replica is getting pretty involved, which I'm pretty interested to see.

I guess Karl's old info about the pickups was pretty good. Curious to hear anything else Jason said, but understand if you don't want to broadcast it. I've considered messaging him too with a few questions, but since a new guitar isn't a wise choice at the moment I've held off on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the original Blue was a JB either, it does seem more fitting. I think his current Strats possibly have Gibson pickups in the bridge at the moment, though. I noticed that at least one of his SGs had the tuners replaced with Sperzels a few years ago, and at around the same time had a Seymour Duncan pickup installed in the bridge. When he started using the Strats again, the bridge pickups weren't f-spaced and didn't have SD logos. His backup, the new Blue, even has zebra bobbins. These could be hastily purchased 59s to replace the ones that went into his SGs, or they could be the old SG pickups, which seems likely to me.

If I remember correctly, Karl wasn’t 100% sure about the red one. It’s tricky to say what was in the blue one, but it could very well have been a TB-59 based on Ocasek’s LP DC. I realize that had P90s, but the lower output 50s spec might have been appealing.

There wasn’t anything else from Jason. I don’t think he’s online that often, but seems approachable. I know someone else spoke to him about his influence on the early sound. I think it was about the Mesa head, but not sure what info was given.

Could be. I know the standard spaced 59 doesn’t have the Seymour Duncan logo, but the TB-59 does. There are definitely some parts that have been reused - the ESP bridge is currently on the sonic blue (backup) but I’ve heard he prefers the green one.

I think I posted the 90s era Warmoth neck I have, but that will be going on the blue replica. I found a second one that’s the correct spec and already cut for the Wilkinson roller nut. It needs a bit of cleaning up from the
previous machine heads, but looks to be in good shape otherwise.



Also, anyone able to identify what body wood this is? From what I could find, it should be either basswood or alder



But I've looked on Warmoth's website for reference, and it seems to resemble maple more than anything else. It's definitely a bit heavy for a Strat too.

 

[stratamania]

My first thought on the body wood is maple.

The neck looks like it has a nut slot for an LSR rather than the older Wilkinson.

 

[fridgelightbulb]

@kerouac I see and yeah that’s also something I noticed about the bridge cut out

Man, now we’re back to square 1 regarding orginal blue’s bridge pickup
I did get the Super 2 for the one i’m working on and it sounds pretty spot on, I’ve seen a couple of people say it was also F spaced; most notably in Mike’s (puisheen) original replica post, but went for the regular one since having an F spaced neck pick up makes no sense to me.

Also just a little correction the parts on the original blue ended up in one of 3 natural strats he got before the colored ones arrived and parts of the other 2 ended up on the ones that he’s currently using.
I’ll leave this just in case anyone is interested. I didn’t mention the black strat since from what I could find that one has stayed the same.

Original Blue body to Natural body #1
Same pickguard, pickups and ESP bridge


Natural body #2 to Current Seafoam Green body
Same pickguard and bridge but different bridge pickup. Natural body was used live in the early 00s, the seafoam body has been used live since 2012 unless it’s the same body as the last guitar on this list.


Natural #3 to Current Sonic Blue back up
This one is the hardest to find (natural #3) and the picture I have isn’t great but you can tell by the sticker in between the pickups that it’s the same pickguard but again different bridge pickup, doesn’t have the ESP bridge but an odd hardtail bridge with 4 corner screws. The natural body was used live in the early 00s until he got the sonic blue one, Sonic Blue strat has been used live since fall 2001 from what I could find.



Seafoam Green #1?
This is either the same body he’s currently using or a completely different one since the pickguard doesn’t match but that is something he could’ve easily swapped out and remove the tape off the body. Used live since 2000, most notably at weezer’s first show after their hiatus and Warped Tour 00.

 

[kerouac]

My first thought on the body wood is maple.

The neck looks like it has a nut slot for an LSR rather than the older Wilkinson.

Thanks

It's a different type from what was on the Strat Plus. Basically the same as the LSR in size, but different width.

@kerouac I see and yeah that’s also something I noticed about the bridge cut out

Man, now we’re back to square 1 regarding orginal blue’s bridge pickup
I did get the Super 2 for the one i’m working on and it sounds pretty spot on, I’ve seen a couple of people say it was also F spaced; most notably in Mike’s (puisheen) original replica post, but went for the regular one since having an F spaced neck pick up makes no sense to me.

Also just a little correction the parts on the original blue ended up in one of 3 natural strats he got before the colored ones arrived and parts of the other 2 ended up on the ones that he’s currently using.
I’ll leave this just in case anyone is interested. I didn’t mention the black strat since from what I could find that one has stayed the same.

Original Blue body to Natural body #1
Same pickguard, pickups and ESP bridge
View attachment 60464

Natural body #2 to Current Seafoam Green body
Same pickguard and bridge but different bridge pickup. Natural body was used live in the early 00s, the seafoam body has been used live since 2012 unless it’s the same body as the last guitar on this list.
View attachment 60465

Natural #3 to Current Sonic Blue back up
This one is the hardest to find (natural #3) and the picture I have isn’t great but you can tell by the sticker in between the pickups that it’s the same pickguard but again different bridge pickup, doesn’t have the ESP bridge but an odd hardtail bridge with 4 corner screws. The natural body was used live in the early 00s until he got the sonic blue one, Sonic Blue strat has been used live since fall 2001 from what I could find.
View attachment 60467


Seafoam Green #1?
This is either the same body he’s currently using or a completely different one since the pickguard doesn’t match but that is something he could’ve easily swapped out and remove the tape off the body. Used live since 2000, most notably at weezer’s first show after their hiatus and Warped Tour 00.
View attachment 60468

Great work.

I doubt the original's neck pickup was F-spaced. The ESP bridge has 54mm spacing, but I don't think an F-spaced pickup is necessary - it's just the first and sixth strings that aren't perfectly centered above the pole pieces. Still very close though.

I went to order the JB yesterday and noticed the F-spaced version is slightly higher DC resistance. Less than 1k though, and I'm guessing it varies slightly.

Yep that's correct. I remember they said the electronics, neck, etc were moved over to the natural (butterscotch?) ones. I think the original body was in use until 2000. I remember a video of a club show and it looked like the same one with all the sticker/tape residue.

Also interesting that the green one in the last picture is swamp ash. I remember something being mentioned about the earlier ones being maple (maybe the black one)

Another picture of the backup. The Gotoh hardtails usually have the screws in the top corners, so it might be one of those.



I do wonder if the neck pickups have always been wired for full output... they seem to be around the same height as the bridge pickup.

I have the neck pickup in mine a fair bit lower compared to the bridge and it's still a bit uneven when switching between the two. It sort of works when going through a distorted amp and using the neck pickup for cleans only (volume rolled off)

we know the red one had the coil split (which I'm pretty sure was always active)

 

[stratamania]

It's a different type from what was on the Strat Plus. Basically the same as the LSR in size, but different width.

There were two types of Wilkinson's on the Strat Plus at different times. Do you have some details or a picture of what you are mentioning if it is something different?

 

[fridgelightbulb]

I went to order the JB yesterday and noticed the F-spaced version is slightly higher DC resistance. Less than 1k though, and I'm guessing it varies slightly.

Yep that's correct. I remember they said the electronics, neck, etc were moved over to the natural (butterscotch?) ones. I think the original body was in use until 2000. I remember a video of a club show and it looked like the same one with all the sticker/tape residue.

Also interesting that the green one in the last picture is swamp ash. I remember something being mentioned about the earlier ones being maple (maybe the black one)

Another picture of the backup. The Gotoh hardtails usually have the screws in the top corners, so it might be one of those.

I do wonder if the neck pickups have always been wired for full output... they seem to be around the same height as the bridge pickup.

I have the neck pickup in mine a fair bit lower compared to the bridge and it's still a bit uneven when switching between the two. It sort of works when going through a distorted amp and using the neck pickup for cleans only (volume rolled off)

we know the red one had the coil split (which I'm pretty sure was always active)

We’ll await your verdict sir.


Might be butterscotch, I just assumed he got natural bodies to save time

Are you referring to the Lupos show from 2000? I’ve seen a few shows were it looks like the original but then someone takes a picture with flash and then you can see it isn’t. Karl has conflicting statements about it, for a while he said it was used until 2000 but during the vip experience where they had the original body on display there was a note that said it was used 1993-1997 however it also said the parts were moved to the black strat which we know is not correct. After all the digging i’ve done the last time I saw it be used live was at the Mykel and Carli benefit show where he throws it in the air after playing Surf Wax


Yes, the black one had a maple body and possibly the natural #2, it looks a bit flammy here


The Gotoh hairdtail is spot on, good eye!


Yeah, looks pretty even on the right side but lower on left screw

That sounds like it might be in fact a JB on the bridge cause those pickups are hot BUT you never see Rivers go full on the neck control like he does with the bridge so who knows. 96 bizarre still being the best source. Might be the reason he locked the neck control with tape on every subsequent build.

 

[kerouac]

There were two types of Wilkinson's on the Strat Plus at different times. Do you have some details or a picture of what you are mentioning if it is something different?

This one. The other Wilkinson roller nuts I saw were a bit larger and had a satin chrome finish. It fits the neck properly, but can't be mounted with screws like the LSR.

We’ll await your verdict sir.

View attachment 60470
Might be butterscotch, I just assumed he got natural bodies to save time

Are you referring to the Lupos show from 2000? I’ve seen a few shows were it looks like the original but then someone takes a picture with flash and then you can see it isn’t. Karl has conflicting statements about it, for a while he said it was used until 2000 but during the vip experience where they had the original body on display there was a note that said it was used 1993-1997 however it also said the parts were moved to the black strat which we know is not correct. After all the digging i’ve done the last time I saw it be used live was at the Mykel and Carli benefit show where he throws it in the air after playing Surf Wax

View attachment 60471
Yes, the black one had a maple body and possibly the natural #2, it looks a bit flammy here

View attachment 60472
The Gotoh hairdtail is spot on, good eye!

View attachment 60473
Yeah, looks pretty even on the right side but lower on left screw

That sounds like it might be in fact a JB on the bridge cause those pickups are hot BUT you never see Rivers go full on the neck control like he does with the bridge so who knows. 96 bizarre still being the best source. Might be the reason he locked the neck control with tape on every subsequent build.

They definitely look like natural finishes. Never noticed the flame top - very interesting.

I think this was before - probably early summer 2000. I can't find the exact video, but I think it was an unreleased song. It wasn't the one from the Video Capture Device, though might have been the same gig.

Yeah, I imagine that throw is what split the body. I don't know when the black guitar first appeared, but it had to have been shortly before. I recall that was Matt's last show and they didn't play live again until 2000.

That's what I was thinking. I just checked the Bizarre 96 video and there is a part with the neck pickup on 10. Right before El Scorcho. You can hear there's a signifciant difference in the voicing when switching pickups.

Not convinced about the bridge pickup just yet. Seems like a lot more drive is coming from that (he does turn it down slightly before switching to the neck)

I know there's a fairly recent interview where Rivers says how the blue one wasn't the first and was inspired by the one from Jason. He also mentioned how the white Telecaster was initially his, but they traded.

 

[Rick]

Guys who play wearing glasses win!