Before I take the dive...

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

I've been saving for a while now and I think I finally have enough to buy myself a black heart Handsome Devil head (In AUS, it's $700+ new, just for the head). I was looking for a small*, basic tube amp that sounded nice and could take pedals well as I'm in a death core band but don't want to commit to buying a fire breather, and this one seemed to fit the bill.
BUT..
...before I go ahead and make a move buying this little beast, I was wonderin' if there were any other small* tube amps that would also fit in that category, 15-30,40,50 watts of basic tube power.

*Small being able to be heard over a death core drummer (pretty darn loud) in practice sessions through my 1x15 and loud enough for a small, mid size pub gig through a 2x12 or 4x12.

 

[GoDrex]

I personally would not get the Blackheart to play metal (or whatever death core is - sounds like it's heavy).

Try to find a used 5150. You won't regret it.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

I personally would not get the Blackheart to play metal (or whatever death core is - sounds like it's heavy).

Try to find a used 5150. You won't regret it.

I have been looking, and still are keeping an eye out for one of those. It's not easy round here.
And yeah, pretty heavy.

 

[GoDrex]

are you talking about spend 700 AUS dollars? or US dollars?  I just looked and 700 AUS = about $581 US right now.

for metal an option might be one of these:

http://store.krankamps.com/products/productdetail/part_number=PRO/1763.0

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

Yup $700 AUD i'm talking in.

That Krank amp looks awesome, but there is nowhere around here that sells it but one shop, and even then the amp costs $1000+.

Edit: Just had a peek in my bank account, looks like there's more then I expected, $800

 

[JaySwear]

seems like you guys really get the shaft in AUS when it comes to guitars... reading both on this forum and a few others. seems like selection is limited and guitars and amps are expensive! don't know if thats really the case or just the vibe i've gotten from reading forums

the vox night train looks really interesting (12 watts i think?) but i don't know if it would be able to handle the stuff as heavy as you want to play. might be worth looking into though. i think vox and bugera both had interesting tiny tube amps if i remember correctly.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

Yeah, pretty much, though kinda the other way around. Where I am, I get a fairly wide range f guitars, but a smallish range of amps and pedals and such, all of which are heavily inflated even when you take into consideration shipping and tax (which is pretty low). trying to get good brands of amps around here is as expensive as a decent used car. Mesa's are like $5000+ Deizel's, Bogner, Egnater, ENGL are just mind boggling at how much they cost.

Another downside is that the dealer list on the sites of these brands are limited to the more commercial stores, which are more expensive or nowhere near where I can get to, and the Independent stores aren't listed, and simple googling doesn't bring them up.

On the 'Heavy' subject; I'm not really the 'Moar Gayne!' type.
In my mind, the 'heaviness', or the type of sound I would like to achieve, comes from the bass (which I hope to achieve from the speakers that i'll save for after this amp), tightness, crunch, and combination of that, the bassist and drummer playing in sync, if that really makes sense.

 

[GoDrex]

well give the Blackheart a try  -  it might work for you. It's just the not the amp I think of when I think "death core" hahaha

I have an 18 watt amp with a 2x12 and with pedals I can get a pretty heavy sound out of it, and although it's pretty loud - I know from experience that with a loud drummer I'd be fighting against it the whole time. I prefer 100 watt amps for metal - though I think I could get away with a 50. I'd also prefer to have at least a 4x12 - just for the fullness of sound that it provides.

I got good advice from a guy years ago, that you can turn down the distortion as you turn up the volume - and you're going to get a better tone. So it's not so much the gain that I'm concerned with, but the power.

I think if you play with a drummer that hits hard, you're going to be pushing a 15 watt amp to it's limit and it's going to feel weak

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

wo0t! I'm going to Melbourne to see my sister this weekend, which means I have at least a whole day to roam round second hand shops. If I can't find something more powerful, or decide against the blackheart, I might need to try and talk to the rest of the band about a 'Band Investment'  :laughing7:

 

[OzziePete]

seems like you guys really get the shaft in AUS when it comes to guitars... reading both on this forum and a few others. seems like selection is limited and guitars and amps are expensive! don't know if thats really the case or just the vibe i've gotten from reading forums

the vox night train looks really interesting (12 watts i think?) but i don't know if it would be able to handle the stuff as heavy as you want to play. might be worth looking into though. i think vox and bugera both had interesting tiny tube amps if i remember correctly.

Yeah, what Wana has replied to, is prettty much on the ball here in Oz!  :sad:

The other problem is that when our $ is up against the US $ and we do venture off shore to buy, a lot of the online retailers in the US will have restrictions placed on them by the manufacturers and sometimnes can;t send gear overseas. Also some very big and/or heavy items just won't get shipped overseas - it's either too expensive or too big or heavy to send by normal parcel post/shipping. Buying offhsore is not for the faint hearted though. Conversion rates and shipping charges can eat into any perceived advantage of the lower US price. (Not forgetting to mention that Australia uses 240v and a unique 3 pin design plug, so if it doesn't come with the IEC (?) 'kettle' styled plug and have an adaption switch up to 240v - or swap out fuses -we have power issues to consider).

For example, I just bought a Focusrite Saffire Pro40 Firewire interface for Aus$569 locally. I had to drive to Newcastle today to pick it up, but overseas that item retails for US$499 approx, then you add the shipping charges. So for Aus$569 it's parity with what you can get it for in the US & have it delivered here. But there's been other gear I have bought  (like the Peterson Tuner) that simply were not available here and if a price could be found would be off the scale in our shops.

 

[tfarny]

Shipping from Ceriatone is probably a lot cheaper for you guys though, and those amps are already very very reasonable for being full handwired classic circuits. I don't really know anything about death metal amps, but there are plenty of Marshall clones on offer.

 

[OzziePete]

Shipping from Ceriatone is probably a lot cheaper for you guys though, and those amps are already very very reasonable for being full handwired classic circuits. I don't really know anything about death metal amps, but there are plenty of Marshall clones on offer.

Yes, shipping from Ceriatone would be cheaper to Australia. But.... our dollar has recently taken a dip in comparison to the US$ (down to US$0-82 or so after being up over $0-90 for quite some time) and Ceriatone's website quotes in US$, I think.

I dunno if any of Ceriatone's amps would do Wana though. The smaller amps they have are tweedish, Fender like amps. And maybe a Vox or two. :dontknow: Agreed that Ceriatone are worth a look at, get great reviews.

 

[GoDrex]

Ceriatone makes Marshall clones- - but they're going to be out of his price range.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

In general, the more modern metal amps move towards the clearer power amp section.  Most of them now a days have 6L6's and you still see some 6550 tube power sections out there.  The idea is to gain things up in the preamp, and then not distort the distorted preamp signal making things less distict, no sharp edges, and hard to deal with when trem picking.  If you were to go the Marshall route from Ceriatone, the 50W JCM 800 built with 6550's or KT88's as the power tubes would be the suggestion for the generalized starting place.

That last bit there is only a generalization, but it does conceptually do what the metallers are asking from the amp.  You can still get marvelous sound from stuff that would normally be consider wrong for the job.  If you are looking for a second hand amp, check the tubes in the back for what type, and have a pedal with you that behaves the way you like.  Rock out.  My Hotrod Deluxe is 40 Watts and has 2 6L6's.  Not a metal amp, but pretty darn loud.  Also remember that a second hand amp is a good candidate for requiring a bit of work to get it where you want it to be.
Patrick

 

[OzziePete]

Ceriatone makes Marshall clones- - but they're going to be out of his price range.

They also do plenty of Fender clones. They have one that has the 5E3 circuit but using 6L6 tubes for that extra bit of .... :evil4:

http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/AC5X3BigDeluxe/AC5X3Complete.htm

Best bet for Wana though, might be to scout out all the stores he can get to, and source a good second hand amp. Might mean some road trips to Sydney and Melbourne for him!

 

[OzziePete]

On the 'Heavy' subject; I'm not really the 'Moar Gayne!' type.

Look forward in the future to the Conor 'Moar Gayne' amp head, mate. You should market that term btw... :laughing7:

 

[Mor Paul]

On the 'Heavy' subject; I'm not really the 'Moar Gayne!' type.

Look forward in the future to the Conor 'Moar Gayne' amp head, mate. You should market that term btw... :laughing7:

I keep a list of names I'd love to see on a child, and I think my child's name will have to be Moore Gayne Lewis now.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

On the 'Heavy' subject; I'm not really the 'Moar Gayne!' type.

Look forward in the future to the Conor 'Moar Gayne' amp head, mate. You should market that term btw... :laughing7:

I keep a list of names I'd love to see on a child, and I think my child's name will have to be Moore Gayne Lewis now.

Ha, one day, 'Moar Gayne!' will be the new 'It goes to eleven'.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

It would seem i've totally forgotten about ceriatone, thanks guys fro bringing that up.

Problems with ceriatone though is Power supply issues, shipping issues and the fact it hasn't got a cabinet (although I could make that project in woodwork class, i've got a few nifty designs). If I were to go for ceriatone (i'd go for the JCM 2204), it would probably cost $300+ more than I have because of shipping and for a step down transformer.

Ceriatone would kinda hit on the sound I want to. Mastodon uses boosted JCM 800's to get their tone, and that's kinda what i'm trying to achieve.
Ceriatone seems like the expensive route and it would take a lot longer to get here, but it offers something that would suit my style and would theoretically have the least problems.

 

[GoDrex]

what do you mean it hasn't got a cabinet? all ceriatone amps can be purchase complete, with cabinets.