Ash and India Ink

[cetanorak]

For those of you who have had successful experiences using india ink to dye white ash:

Following the first coat, how long do you wait until applying a second coat?

Have you ever experienced any "lifting" of the previous coats of dye when applying a second or third coat?

How long do you let each application of dye sit on the wood before wiping the excess off?

 

[bagman67]

India ink is so intensely pigmented that you will not likely need a second coat. India ink is not a dye and should not be worked like a dye is.  Don't flood the surface and mop up the excess.  Just apply it straight out of the bottle in a thin, even coat.  If you apply with a sponge brush such as that shown here, you will get a complete opaque coat without wasting any material.  Don't shy away from loading the brush as often as you need, but there's no need to go overboard. 


Some additional tips: 


First, test your finishing schedule on a piece of scrap of the same species.  If you don't have access to a lumberyard you can get a 1/4" x 3" by 24" board from Rockler here.  https://www.rockler.com/white-ash-sold-by-the-piece-1-4-thickness?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&tid=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwh7H7BRBBEiwAPXjadnlTcWlS-CegqXTw_sYlbitrRFfhmR9_3ltls7GWtcFqquUr2upw2hoCLV4QAvD_BwE


Second:  You may wish to seal your lumber with a wash coat of shellac or lacquer before applying the ink. Tape off two squares on your test scrap and try it both ways to see which gives superior results.


Once you have inked your piece, let it dry thoroughly (give it a day), after which you can proceed to topcoat. 


If your plan is to use a contrasting grain fill for a dog-hair finish, seal the India ink coating with shellac or lacquer or your clearcoat of choice, then apply grain fill.  Allow the grain fill to dry, sand back, and then topcoat.

 

[cetanorak]

India ink is so intensely pigmented that you will not likely need a second coat. India ink is not a dye and should not be worked like a dye is.  Don't flood the surface and mop up the excess.  Just apply it straight out of the bottle in a thin, even coat.  If you apply with a sponge brush such as that shown here, you will get a complete opaque coat without wasting any material.  Don't shy away from loading the brush as often as you need, but there's no need to go overboard. 

Any risks to applying a second coat? For India Ink like Speedball, which has shellac, I'm curious to know how a fresh application interacts with a dried layer. Does the dried ink get dissolved back into solution or hold fast onto the  wood?

 

[bagman67]

I realized my original post had some wacky font size formatting so I fixed that.  Sorry.


Now, you can apply a second coat, but it won't make any difference in intensity of color.  If you are applying the first coat to bare wood, it will soak in a little, but the second coat will not melt into the first like lacquer or shellac, because while there is shellac in the ink, it's waterborne, not contained in a highly volatile solvent like acetone or alcohol, which achieves its bond to the previously-applied layer by melting it somewhat.  I'm not really sure how it will behave from the standpoint of bonding to the existing color coat, but experimentation on scrap is always worthwhile.  My own experience was that I didn't need any more ink after the first coat.  I used Speedball ink on  my project as well. 


Side note - India ink that is otherwise sanded back to bare lumber remains in the grain and gives great contrast under a colored dye coat.   


Example from my very first finishing project ever.  This project was coated with India ink, then I had a change of heart and sanded it back.  I then dyed with full-strength water-based General Finishes dye stain, sealed, and then filled the grain with ebony Timbermate waterbased grain filler.  Sealed with Deft rattle-can lacquer, then applied burst edge with Behlen black toner from a rattle-can, then lots more rattle-can lacquer.  I think it's a pretty nifty look.

 

[rauchman]

I realized my original post had some wacky font size formatting so I fixed that.  Sorry.


Now, you can apply a second coat, but it won't make any difference in intensity of color.  If you are applying the first coat to bare wood, it will soak in a little, but the second coat will not melt into the first like lacquer or shellac, because while there is shellac in the ink, it's waterborne, not contained in a highly volatile solvent like acetone or alcohol, which achieves its bond to the previously-applied layer by melting it somewhat.  I'm not really sure how it will behave from the standpoint of bonding to the existing color coat, but experimentation on scrap is always worthwhile.  My own experience was that I didn't need any more ink after the first coat.  I used Speedball ink on  my project as well. 


Side note - India ink that is otherwise sanded back to bare lumber remains in the grain and gives great contrast under a colored dye coat.   


Example from my very first finishing project ever.  This project was coated with India ink, then I had a change of heart and sanded it back.  I then dyed with full-strength water-based General Finishes dye stain, sealed, and then filled the grain with ebony Timbermate waterbased grain filler.  Sealed with Deft rattle-can lacquer, then applied burst edge with Behlen black toner from a rattle-can, then lots more rattle-can lacquer.  I think it's a pretty nifty look.

Gorgeous!

 

[rgand]

That's a beautiful job, Ian. I love that color with the black burstover.  :icon_thumright:

 

[bagman67]

Thanks, Robert.  That was the first body I ever finished, and it was beset by all manner of newbie errors and simple bad luck (such as the time the hook it was hanging from pulled loose from the ceiling the night after I applied the black burst).  I finally chucked it when two bridge screws broke off during final assembly. Swear words may have been uttered. Fortunately, it only cost me about 60 bucks cash and countless hours of "learning."

 

[rgand]

That sounds like quite a learning experience. Have you considered duplicating that beautiful finsh on one now that you know what you're doing and (presumably) have hooks that won't pull out of the ceiling?

 

[bagman67]

Indeed.  Next time I get my hands on an ash body I may well go for it.  I still have 7/8 of a can of orange General Finishes water-based dye stain in my chemical cabinet.